My Latest Crazy Idea: Trade ICE for Used Leaf, Wait for Model 3

[Saghost]

Okay...another question. Only because I'm thinking I really might do this. What would you say is the most expeditious sequence for getting an EVSE installed? Is it best to contact the utility first (in my case, SoCal Edison) and get the process moving, or to contact an electrician first? I'd have to get a a NEMA 14-50 installed first, and from what I've read here and elsewhere, probably a second sub-meter for the EV circuit. From start to finish, typically how much time are we talking about?

On a related note, in the interim when you had an EV but no EVSE, how easy was it to live just charging with a 110/120v charger and/or public charger? Based on the PlugShare map, it seems like there are plenty of Level 2 and even CHAdeMo chargers within a reasonable distance of my house.

How far do you typically drive?
Do you have a 120V outlet in your garage/carport?

Both the Volt and the Leaf should come with a 120V EVSE, which is enough to fully charge a Volt overnight, or mostly charge a Leaf - so if you're not driving more than 30-40 miles in the typical day, you should be able to charge that way indefinitely.

No idea about the timing question - I had a 240V outlet installed when they were installing my solar system, and plug an EVSE into that. I also don't have any special EV charging rates - but I don't pay crazy California energy prices, either.
Walter

 

[Drucifer]

You are in Cali, so it may be different for you.

1. How many amps is your main panel and how big is your house? I have a 200 amp panel, so there was enough room for the NEMA 14-50 without adding another panel or talking with the power company.

2. Do you need to change to a TOS plan? In California, charging at night can be done on the cheap. You may also possibly save money having a dedicated meter. This varies highly depending on the specific utility and state regulations. Where I am there is no TOS.

3. Do you have or do you plan to install solar panels?

As far as charging on 110 goes, You add about 3-4 miles for every hour plugged in. If you are home at night 10-12 hours, that is enough time to fully charge a Chevy Volt. It would also be sufficient for a Leaf, if your commute is under 35 miles or if you can charge a bit elsewhere during the day.

 

[gavine]

Before buying a used Leaf, read this helpful guide:

Used Nissan Leaf Buying Guide

 

[igotzzoom]

Can you tell visually if I'm a good candidate? Here are pics of my meter and breaker panel. It says "240v" on it, so that's encouraging. I know I'm going to have to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed, but I'm hoping that there won't be too much extra expense.

 

[Saghost]

This looks like you only have 125A service, with a whole lot of stuff on it already. You definitely need to think about upgrading to 200A service if you're going to add a 14-50 and use it to charge an EV.

 

[igotzzoom]

This looks like you only have 125A service, with a whole lot of stuff on it already. You definitely need to think about upgrading to 200A service if you're going to add a 14-50 and use it to charge an EV.

Any ballpark idea on what the cost of upgrading would be? Also, I should probably mention that I'm in a townhouse condo. I've read on some other forums that limits your electrical upgrade options.

 

[Saghost]

Any ballpark idea on what the cost of upgrading would be? Also, I should probably mention that I'm in a townhouse condo. I've read on some other forums that limits your electrical upgrade options.

No clue, sorry. I've never lived in a townhouse, and never dealt with the upgrade. I've read of people doing it online, and I was told to watch what the service was while shopping for houses, but that's the limit of my knowledge. I think you need a new breaker box with heavier bus bars as part of the upgrade, so it likely isn't really cheap. Maybe some of the other forum members can help.
Walter

 

[GSP]

An electrician can run the calculations to see how much you can add to your panel.

Even if only a 20 A breaker can be added, you can add a 240 V clipper creek LCS-20 or a NEMA 6-20 outlet to use with an Aerovironment Turbocord. The 20 A (16 A continuous) 240 V circuit should be fine for overnight charging.

Another option would be to switch to a gas stove, and use the stove's 50 A breaker for your 14-50.

Also, I would check out FlasherZ's "Charging FAQ" here at TMC.

GSP

 

[igotzzoom]

An electrician can run the calculations to see how much you can add to your panel.

Even if only a 20 A breaker can be added, you can add a 240 V clipper creek HCS-20 or a NEMA 6-20 outlet to use with an Aerovironment Turbocord. The 20 A (16 A continuous) 240 V circuit should be fine for overnight charging.

Another option would be to switch to a gas stove, and use the stove's 50 A breaker for your 14-50.

Also, I would check out FlasherZ's "Charging FAQ" here at TMC.

GSP

Actually, already have a gas stove. I think it might have been retrofitted. So it's possible that circuit isn't being used. Out of curiosity, I looked behind the range, and there's a four-plug outlet. Only one of them is currently being used. Dryer is also gas.

 

[GSP]

Great news, a 14-50 install may be pretty easy.

Here is a link to Flasher's FAQ:

FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure QA

GSP

PS. This is great, because you can start enjoying life now, and enjoy it even more when you get your Model III.

 

[richkae]

A 3.3kW charger only requires a 20 amp 220 circuit and can fully charge a Nissan Leaf overnight.
Fully charging a Model 3 overnight will probably only require a 30 amp 220 circuit.
I don't see a reason to upgrade the panel.

 

[igotzzoom]

Thanks for the links and advice. For what it's worth, I emailed SCE to see if the transformer serving my unit is rated to handle the load an EVSE would add. After that, I guess the next step would be to contact a few electrical contractors to get some quotes.

 

[Saghost]

Actually, already have a gas stove. I think it might have been retrofitted. So it's possible that circuit isn't being used. Out of curiosity, I looked behind the range, and there's a four-plug outlet. Only one of them is currently being used. Dryer is also gas.

Ohh. This changes things. The Dryer will certainly free up at least 30A of capacity by being gas - a NEMA 14-30 plug would give you 24A/5.8 kW charging - on the order of 20 miles of range per charging hour.

You said the range was gas - is the oven also gas, or is it one of the gas/electric hybrid types with an electric oven and gas range?

 

[igotzzoom]

Ohh. This changes things. The Dryer will certainly free up at least 30A of capacity by being gas - a NEMA 14-30 plug would give you 24A/5.8 kW charging - on the order of 20 miles of range per charging hour.

You said the range was gas - is the oven also gas, or is it one of the gas/electric hybrid types with an electric oven and gas range?

Oven is also gas. Basically, all the appliances that could be gas are: water heater, dryer, forced-air heater, and stove/oven.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically, whatever electrical upgrade I get, I want it to be essentially "future-proof" as much as possible. I may be getting a Leaf for now, but I want it to be able to support whatever charger I have when I get my Model 3. There's also a chance I'll move out of my condo by the time I get the Model 3, but regardless, I'm thinking upgraded circuitry for an EV would be a selling point for potential buyers.

 

[Saghost]

Oven is also gas. Basically, all the appliances that could be gas are: water heater, dryer, forced-air heater, and stove/oven.

In that case it should be fairly cheap. You can repurpose some of those big circuit breakers, just have to have wiring run to the garage. Probably a few hundred to have an outlet put in - an EVSE hard wired might be similar or might be more (in addition to the cost of the EVSE, of course.)

 

[igotzzoom]

There's already a junction box and conduit that's been run to the garage. I wouldn't be totally heartbroken if I lost the 110 outlets, and it was repurposed to a NEMA 14-50. Either that, or maybe a parallel conduit could be run alongside it. Might help save me some $$.

- - - Updated - - -

A 3.3kW charger only requires a 20 amp 220 circuit and can fully charge a Nissan Leaf overnight.
Fully charging a Model 3 overnight will probably only require a 30 amp 220 circuit.
I don't see a reason to upgrade the panel.

I'm only seriously looking at '13 and newer Leaf models because of the 6.6kW charger. Would that require a 14-50?

 

[stopcrazypp]

The good thing about getting this over now is that supposedly some electricians will quote higher if they know it's being used for a tesla. Then also comes the question if you are doing a hardwired EVSE or a 14-50 (using a JESLA, or clipper creek HCS-40P) or 6-50 (a bunch of plugin EVSEs uses this).

 

[igotzzoom]

The good thing about getting this over now is that supposedly some electricians will quote higher if they know it's being used for a tesla. Then also comes the question if you are doing a hardwired EVSE or a 14-50 (using a JESLA, or clipper creek HCS-40P) or 6-50 (a bunch of plugin EVSEs uses this).

I'm leaning toward Clipper Creek, since I've read they have a very good reputation for ruggedness and reliability, and are reasonably priced. I also just sent an inquiry email to Steve Ortiz at Eco-Tech, and sent him the same pictures I posted here, as well as a few more of the conduit and wiring in my garage. I'm hoping to be able to do this for around $2000 total, including appx $500 for the EVSE.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm leaning toward Clipper Creek, since I've read they have a very good reputation for ruggedness and reliability, and are reasonably priced. I also just sent an inquiry email to Steve Ortiz at Eco-Tech, and sent him the same pictures I posted here, as well as a few more of the conduit and wiring in my garage. I'm hoping to be able to do this for around $2000 total, including appx $500 for the EVSE.

I heard Clipper Creek has a good reputation too and pricing is reasonable. It just then becomes a decision of hardwire or 14-50. 14-50 gives you more flexibility when you get a Model 3 (you can disconnect and use UMC).

Hardwire you will have to use the J1772 adapter all the time when you get the Model 3 (although you can buy a spare one when the time comes and leave it permanently attached to your EVSE).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

If you're looking into a Volt, please note that there are sweet deals on remaining 2015 inventory and there are $10k in Fed+CAincentives, plus, the 2016 will be coming in late summer/fall to CA first, so used Volt prices _have_ to be low. Best CA dealers for new Volts are Rydell (offer no-haggle prices 2015s quoting $nk off MSRP, where n varies according to GM incentives; Keyes does some good offers below invoice posted on gm-volt.com, although they have some forced dealer options that raise the price). New CA Volts might have HOV sticker, used CA Volts should have one.
2011/2012 16kWh battery, 10.3 usable, 35 rated range
2013, 2014: 16.5kWh battery 10.8kWh usable, 38 rated range
late 2014, 2015: 17.1kWh battery, 11.2kWh usable according to reports, but not rerated for range because end of cycle.

The "secret" battery increase on the 2015 might be a big deal, deoending on your actual "normal" day, because a mile can be the difference between engine running or not.

On Clipper Creek, our LCS-25 has given no problems. Clipper Creek lots of EVSE options, both power and plug, and psople have found they give great service when there are problems.