Moving charger location in garage

[PeloDaveInKY]

First and foremost - a licensed electrician installed my existing charging solution - and I will have a licensed electrician make any changes that need to made to accommodate what I'm about to ask. Just wanted to tap into the experience of this forum to make sure it is possible before I reach out to begin the process of having the work done.

I took delivery on my Model 3 in December of 2021, and had my electrician install a NEMA 14-50 outlet near where I park in our garage, and specifically had him install it using 4 gauge wiring as to support a 60 amp breaker (50 amp is what is installed now) in the event that I ever decided to change to the Wall Connector. Fast forward to April 2022 - my wife and I absolutely love my Model 3, and decide to make the jump to all electric and put in an order for a Model Y to replace her gas guzzling Mercedes Benz GLE350, which is wonderful - but now we need to figure out the logistics of charging two vehicles.

Neither of us drive enough that having two dedicated chargers is an absolute necessity, alternating which car is charged on a given night isn't a problem whatsoever. That being said, the current location of the charger - whether it be continuing to use the mobile connector, or going with the 24' Wall Connector will be long enough to reach her spot in the garage. The way I see it we likely have two options. 1) Whomever needs charged on a given night parks on the side of the garage with the charger, or 2) move the location of the charger (and quite possibly order the Wall Connector) to where it would easily reach both vehicles. I'm leaning towards the latter, just from a convenience standpoint. My wife and I both are both on the side we prefer parking in within the garage, and I'd venture to say the likelihood of one of us clipping a mirror, door dings from parking too close and kids opening doors to fast, etc increases if we are alternating sides.

All that being said...to get the charger to where I'd want it, I'd probably need an additional 15-20' of cable/conduit ran, and I'm wanting to know if this is a code/safety compliant possibility with the 4 gauge wiring. Would something like this installed inside of a small junction box allow us to extend the run another 15-20' without having to rerun the other 25' of cable? Unfortunately, my electric panel is not in my garage (though it is in the unfinished area of my basement adjacent to my garage), so I've already got a good 20-25' run - and I'd rather not have to replace all of the cabling if I don't have to - as that stuff isn't cheap at the moment.

 

[jjrandorin]

A licensed electrician will be able to extend the current wire in a code compliant manner for your area. They might use something like you linked to, in a metal junction box, or another type of block, also in a metal junction box.

FWIW, I just did something very similar, except it was "after having a model 3 since 2018, deciding to sell wifex X3 M40 and buy a model Y and be all electric". I already had a wall connector, and for the exact same reasons you specified ( we are used to parking our cars on a specific side of the garage, just like people are used to sleeping on a specific side of the bed), we didnt want to swap sides based on who needed to charge.

In fact, although my wife is basically retired and doesnt drive much (like 3-4k miles a year or so), after I gave in to her repeated suggestions we sell her car for a model Y even though it had very low miles and there was nothing at all wrong with it, she said " Oh, am I going to get one of those wall charger thingies on my side of the garage so I dont have to DRAAAAAAAGGGGFGG the cable all the way to my side of the garage to plug in?"

(note, its a 3 car tandem garage, which means that the part we park in is basically a two car garage... the cars are right next to each other so it wasnt going to be a big deal).

I blinked a couple of times, and said "uhhh.... sure honey, yeah, we can do that". So I got another one and got it setup with power sharing between the two. The upside of that is, she can come and go as she pleases, plug the car in when she gets home, and never wonder about "should I charge? What level did he say to charge to? Is it supposed to charge now, or later?" or anything like that. She just "plugs it in every time she parks the car", and knows that I have programmed the car to charge when we want it, to the level that I already worked out we want it at, etc.

Sounds like that would be a decent amount of spend for you if you decide to do it, and its definitely not "necessary" at all, but it sure is convenient (having both cars being able to be plugged in, without shuffling anything.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I don't think there is any issue at all splicing the wire with simple wire nuts in a box as that is done all the time.

Did you use THHN wire or ROMEX (NM-B) wire in the 14-50 install? If you used ROMEX (likely) for the 14-50 installation then you would have an extra wire as the Wall Connector is a 3 wire system (hot/hot/ground) vs 4 wire (hot/hot/neutral/ground) on a 14-50 setup. Not a big deal per se but something to think about.

Might be easier (but maybe more costly) to just install a Wall Connector in the new parking spot and keep the 14-50 as is,

 

[PeloDaveInKY]

A licensed electrician will be able to extend the current wire in a code compliant manner for your area. They might use something like you linked to, in a metal junction box, or another type of block, also in a metal junction box.

FWIW, I just did something very similar, except it was "after having a model 3 since 2018, deciding to sell wifex X3 M40 and buy a model Y and be all electric". I already had a wall connector, and for the exact same reasons you specified ( we are used to parking our cars on a specific side of the garage, just like people are used to sleeping on a specific side of the bed), we didnt want to swap sides based on who needed to charge.

In fact, although my wife is basically retired and doesnt drive much (like 3-4k miles a year or so), after I gave in to her repeated suggestions we sell her car for a model Y even though it had very low miles and there was nothing at all wrong with it, she said " Oh, am I going to get one of those wall charger thingies on my side of the garage so I dont have to DRAAAAAAAGGGGFGG the cable all the way to my side of the garage to plug in?"

(note, its a 3 car tandem garage, which means that the part we park in is basically a two car garage... the cars are right next to each other so it wasnt going to be a big deal).

I blinked a couple of times, and said "uhhh.... sure honey, yeah, we can do that". So I got another one and got it setup with power sharing between the two. The upside of that is, she can come and go as she pleases, plug the car in when she gets home, and never wonder about "should I charge? What level did he say to charge to? Is it supposed to charge now, or later?" or anything like that. She just "plugs it in every time she parks the car", and knows that I have programmed the car to charge when we want it, to the level that I already worked out we want it at, etc.

Sounds like that would be a decent amount of spend for you if you decide to do it, and its definitely not "necessary" at all, but it sure is convenient (having both cars being able to be plugged in, without shuffling anything.

Thanks for the response. I would not at all be surprised if we didn’t end up with a second wall connector at some point - but I can pretty much guarantee it will be me going out and plugging the cars in nightly. Good to know that this is something that can be done - I’m sure for an electrician it’s probably no more than an hour or two of work to swap out the breaker and run the additional cable, I’m just somewhat ignorant when it comes to this stuff. We have until October at the absolute earliest to even have to worry about it, but I figured I’d go ahead and proactively order the wall connector now if it was something that can be done, and work to get someone out sometime this spring/summer to take care of the installation.

 

[PeloDaveInKY]

I don't think there is any issue at all splicing the wire with simple wire nuts in a box as that is done all the time.

Did you use THHN wire or ROMEX (NM-B) wire in the 14-50 install? If you used ROMEX (likely) for the 14-50 installation then you would have an extra wire as the Wall Connector is a 3 wire system (hot/hot/ground) vs 4 wire (hot/hot/neutral/ground) on a 14-50 setup. Not a big deal per se but something to think about.

Might be easier (but maybe more costly) to just install a Wall Connector in the new parking spot and keep the 14-50 as is,

I like this option a lot - but it does present two major issues that would probably make it a non-starter. The 14-50 install effectively filled our breaker box - our electrician said we could maybe gain a bit more space by switching some of the 120 breakers to slim-line, but if we need anything else big, chances are a sub-panel would be in order. The second issue is that the length of the run to her side of the garage would be crazy long. It would either need run the same route as mine and then up and over the garage door across the ceiling, or up into the attic over our garage and down the interior wall.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I like this option a lot - but it does present two major issues that would probably make it a non-starter. The 14-50 install effectively filled our breaker box - our electrician said we could maybe gain a bit more space by switching some of the 120 breakers to slim-line, but if we need anything else big, chances are a sub-panel would be in order. The second issue is that the length of the run to her side of the garage would be crazy long. It would either need run the same route as mine and then up and over the garage door across the ceiling, or up into the attic over our garage and down the interior wall.

Maybe extend the current install to a middle ground where a 24' wall connector could reach both spots? Is that possible?

 

[PeloDaveInKY]

Maybe extend the current install to a middle ground where a 24' wall connector could reach both spots? Is that possible?

Yea, that's why I was asking if it can be extended - this is what I want to do. If I move it from the side of my car to the wall of my garage right next to the garage door on my side (which is another 15-20' total because we have a fairly large bump out it would have to run along), 24' would easily reach both vehicles from that location.

 

[PeloDaveInKY]

For reference, I’d like it in that open spot right next to my garage door and the push broom.

 

[CKwik240]

Since you already have it wired for a 60A breaker, I'd add a wall charger at the current location, and extend a line from that location to another wall charger where you need the 2nd charger and usual another wall charger. You can use the power share feature to add the flexibility of charging both vehicles without having to run 2 separate lines at 60A each. And both could accommodate the 48A charging one at a time if the circumstances required it.

 

[kayak1]

I like this option a lot - but it does present two major issues that would probably make it a non-starter. The 14-50 install effectively filled our breaker box - our electrician said we could maybe gain a bit more space by switching some of the 120 breakers to slim-line, but if we need anything else big, chances are a sub-panel would be in order. The second issue is that the length of the run to her side of the garage would be crazy long. It would either need run the same route as mine and then up and over the garage door across the ceiling, or up into the attic over our garage and down the interior wall.

If the main panel is full, then, you already have #4, have your electrician install a subpanel with the #4, and swap the breaker over to an 80 amp.
Install two 40 amp breakers in the sub panel (or larger breakers if you set up load sharing.) and run the appropriate conduit/wires to each car.

You will be much happier with just plugging each car in when you get home. Setup the cars to charge based on when electricity is the least expensive.

This will save you a lot of sanity in the long run.

My wife and I each just plugin when we get home and we have zero stress as to leaving with a charged car.

 

[PeloDaveInKY]

If the main panel is full, then, you already have #4, have your electrician install a subpanel with the #4, and swap the breaker over to an 80 amp.
Install two 40 amp breakers in the sub panel (or larger breakers if you set up load sharing.) and run the appropriate conduit/wires to each car.

You will be much happier with just plugging each car in when you get home. Setup the cars to charge based on when electricity is the least expensive.

This will save you a lot of sanity in the long run.

My wife and I each just plugin when we get home and we have zero stress as to leaving with a charged car.

I was actually wondering if this was an option - wasn't sure what was required wiring wise to add a sub panel. I'd technically only need a single 60 amp breaker in the sub-panel if I were to get two wall connectors and load share them though - right? I'd be OK with having a sub panel for a single breaker, if only because it we've talked about a hot tub at some point in the future, and it would give us room for that.

 

[jjrandorin]

I was actually wondering if this was an option - wasn't sure what was required wiring wise to add a sub panel. I'd technically only need a single 60 amp breaker in the sub-panel if I were to get two wall connectors and load share them though - right? I'd be OK with having a sub panel for a single breaker, if only because it we've talked about a hot tub at some point in the future, and it would give us room for that.

Depends on how the wall connector does sharing. The tesla gen 2 wall connector would only need 1 breaker, and the line from that breaker could be split. They dont sell that one new anymore so you would have to buy 2 of them from people who still have them, and they currently sell for "more than new" for a few different reasons.

Tesla gen 3 (the current one) wall connector, wants a breaker for each wall connector, so it would need 2 breakers.

The difference in power sharing between the two (setup) is that the gen 2 uses a physical communication wire between the two devices (they are hard wired together) while the gen 3 uses wifi to power share.

 

[kayak1]

Depends on how the wall connector does sharing. The tesla gen 2 wall connector would only need 1 breaker, and the line from that breaker could be split. They dont sell that one new anymore so you would have to buy 2 of them from people who still have them, and they currently sell for "more than new" for a few different reasons.

Tesla gen 3 (the current one) wall connector, wants a breaker for each wall connector, so it would need 2 breakers.

The difference in power sharing between the two (setup) is that the gen 2 uses a physical communication wire between the two devices (they are hard wired together) while the gen 3 uses wifi to power share.

With the Gen 2 version, you might have a fight with AHJ if you don't use a breaker for each one. I think that's part of the move to gen 3 as the new directions are constant with code.

 

[davewill]

If the main panel is full, then, you already have #4, have your electrician install a subpanel with the #4, and swap the breaker over to an 80 amp.
Install two 40 amp breakers in the sub panel (or larger breakers if you set up load sharing.) and run the appropriate conduit/wires to each car.

You will be much happier with just plugging each car in when you get home. Setup the cars to charge based on when electricity is the least expensive.

This will save you a lot of sanity in the long run.

My wife and I each just plugin when we get home and we have zero stress as to leaving with a charged car.

This would be my choice, assuming the electrician gives the OK. The nice thing about it is that you can use the mobile connectors now, and as long as you use heavy enough wire for the two outlets, you could always change over to a power sharing setup at a later time.

 

[Rocky_H]

With the Gen 2 version, you might have a fight with AHJ if you don't use a breaker for each one. I think that's part of the move to gen 3 as the new directions are constant with code.

The old system with Gen2 was consistent with code already. In section 625, they do have the allowance for this, where it says each EVSE needs to be on its own dedicated circuit unless it is using a manufacturer implemented load sharing function, which these are.

 

[kayak1]

The old system with Gen2 was consistent with code already. In section 625, they do have the allowance for this, where it says each EVSE needs to be on its own dedicated circuit unless it is using a manufacturer implemented load sharing function, which these are.

Yes, but the AHJ may not allow it. They are allowed to be more restrictive.

 

[Rocky_H]

Yes, but the AHJ may not allow it. They are allowed to be more restrictive.

If you're going there, saying they can make up whatever nonsense restrictions they want that aren't in NEC, then they may not allow it if it's a Thursday or your name is David. I'm not going to entertain that.

 

[jjrandorin]

If you're going there, saying they can make up whatever nonsense restrictions they want that aren't in NEC, then they may not allow it if it's a Thursday or your name is David. I'm not going to entertain that.

There definitely was a situation (talked about in the tesla energy subforum) where a local AHJ in the Northern California area was being more restrictive related to powerwall install requirements.

One of our regular members there is actually a designer for a smaller PV / ESS install company, and was talking to us about the hoops that particular AHJ was making everyone in the region go through. The problem was one of interpretation, if I boil it all down (or use a "30,000 foot" analogy).

I dont have any first hand knowledge of this at all, but paraphrasing from the thread discussion I remember, the issue boiled down to "one can challenge an AHJ, but if they stick to their guns, you would have to legally challenge them, and if you do that, even if you win, you are losing".

I believe that the specific issue (having to do with placement of powerwalls in garages and whether that would be accepted, or whether an AHJ would accept the certifications that tesla had put forth) has been resolved when they moved to the newer version of the code recently (as in sometime in the past year), but I remember being somewhat surprised that an "Authority having jurisdiction" could appear to somewhat say "I know what that says, but we dont agree", in effect.

If interested, the thread I am revering to (its a 12 pager) is here:

Santa Clara County retroactively Changing ESS Rules

I am dealing with a significant rule change in Santa Clara County Fire jurisdiction, which is effecting our ability to get permits for Powerwall installations. SCC has retroactively applied new rules to our existing permits and is rejecting our other new permits based on their rules. These new...

teslamotorsclub.com

Certainly not "wall connector" but unless I remember it wrong, it was an example of "AHJ changing / retroactively applying rules that may not apply in other jurisdictions".

 

[Rocky_H]

I dont have any first hand knowledge of this at all, but paraphrasing from the thread discussion I remember, the issue boiled down to "one can challenge an AHJ, but if they stick to their guns, you would have to legally challenge them, and if you do that, even if you win, you are losing".

Sure, that is the way the world is. But that is in any kind of job in any kind of field. If you get a mini-dictator in a position of power with a Napoleon Complex who also is incompetent and doing his job wrong, then that can cause people problems. It's rare, but that could be at the DMV or a policeman or anything. But no, I am not going to just accept that an inspector's wrong judgement is appropriate when it's not. I would fight that if I needed to. I have a history of doing that. My internal justice streak is too big to let $#&* like that go.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yes, you can absolutely use multi-taps to convert your existing outlet box into a junction box to extend the wire run to a new location. Cheap and easy. Note that there's a risk of you running over the cord and causing significant damage to your wife's charge port if you're not careful. And she wouldn't want to plug in anytime you're not home for the same reason.

I'll second @kayak1's suggestion of replacing your existing outlet box with a subpanel. They're surprisingly cheap and you can put lots of breakers in them whose combined amperage total far exceeds the supply breaker - that's literally the standard use case. So, for example, you could use a 70A or 80A breaker in your main panel to feed a subpanel with 2 60A breakers and even some 20A breakers for 120V too if you like. It's legal, normal, and safe.

Of course an EVSE setup should not be designed to exceed 80% of the capacity of any breaker in the system so you'd either want to use 2 wall chargers configured for 48A each with load sharing logic or one wall charger configured for 30A, 40A, or whatever is necessary to stay below the 80% limit of your circuit when the other charger is running.

But all that said, seriously consider just running a new 50A/60A circuit all the way over to her right/rear corner. It can be 6/2 Romex ($3/foot) or a pair of 6AWG THHN conductors ($2/foot + conduit) so the cost differential mostly comes down to just an hour or two of electrician labor here or there.