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Model X has single 72A charger

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Wire size in the chargers is determined by current (amps), not kW. But batteries and charge time are determined in terms of power-time, so kWh. When we talk about the maximum power that can be delivered by a charger to batteries, it's usually done in the form of current (amps) that can be delivered given the size of wiring, PCB traces, transformer coils, etc. Whether 100A at 5V (500 W) or 100A at 500V (50 kW), you need the same size wire to carry it.

The time it takes to charge the 90 kWh battery, though, depends upon the power (voltage AND current). Higher power means faster charging, but you don't get to control the voltage. Your voltage is determined by your power supplier, grid standards, length of conductors (voltage loss), etc. In the US, it's either 120V (standard half-phase) or 240V (single phase), or 208V (3 phase L-L). In Europe, it's nominally 230V. And voltage (V) x current (A) = power (W/kW).

The current revision Model S charger is capable of charging at 16A per phase across 3-phase power. If used in a single-phase configuration (like we use in the US), the single phase is load balanced across all three inputs. Technically, I believe the Model S charger could do up to 48A single phase, but software restricts it (likely based on wire size somewhere).

When you talk of 3-phase power at 380V, you're using what's called "line-to-line" voltage between phases; Tesla doesn't use this voltage. Instead, it uses the voltage between the "neutral" point of all three power phases and the line conductor, or what's called "line-to-neutral" voltage. You can derive this by dividing the L-L voltage by 1.732 (the square root of 3). A 380V L-L 3-phase voltage will give you 220V L-N. So, 220 * 16 * 3 = 10.56 kW for single charger. If you have a dual charger, it will give you 21.12 kW (great nod to Rush, too) at the voltage.

Model X's European specifications haven't been released. I'm going to assume and speculate that the 48A charger from the Model X is the same one as used in the Model S, so again you'd be looking at 10.56 kW for 3-phase charging; US & Canada will see an upgrade to 48A, likely because whatever constraint found in Model S is relieved in Model X. The high-current charger from Model X may be a 24 x 3 phase charger, which would get you a possible 220 * 24 * 3 = 15.84 kW. Most likely, you will not be able to charge at 22 kW in Europe with Model X. Everything in this paragraph is speculation, though, as European charging specs haven't been mentioned or released yet.

Thank you very much. Exactly the amount of detail I'm looking for. So this new cars Turkish Ev company makes supporting 22kW charging means they support 32A cont. current on each phase leading to 96Amps and with 220V that is ~22kW? You think even when a small company like this can opt for this, Tesla not doing and limiting still to 72Amps at most with a new car like the X means they deem higher powered AC charging unnecessary? This company I'm talking about has no support for DC Fast charging by the way. (no Chademo, nothing like the SuC)
 
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Yes but the phase thing confuses me. They say 380V three phase 32A each phase but when calculating power you still multiply with 220V. (220*32*3=22kW) So the Turkish EV company has a 100Amp charger? Even when best Tesla can do is 72Amps with the X and 80Amps with dual chargers on the S?

Yes, because Tesla doesn't use the 380V L-L voltage; instead, it uses the L-N voltage of 220V.

Take a look at the top part of this graphic (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power ):

324px-The_basic_3-phase_configurations.svg.png


Tesla uses the voltages found between the black conductor (neutral) and each of the red, green, and blue conductors, which is 220V. But the "380V" comes from the voltage you'd measure between the red and green, or green and blue, or blue and red conductors.

I know it's complex - I'm trying to make it easier but it's not easy. :)

If the Turkish EV company can charge at 22 kW, then it has a charger capable of using 32A per phase. Tesla's Model S can do that same power with dual chargers, but I believe Model X will be limited to 16A per phase (10.56 kW), 50% of the Turkish EV's capability with standard charger, or 24A per phase (or nearly 16 kW), 75% of the Turkish EV's capability with the higher-current charger. Again, this is speculation as there have been no European specs released, I'm making an assumption based on the 48A/72A maximum single-phase power available.
 
You're not going to believe this!!! (Well, it's Tesla with Spinal Tap to 11 volume so you will...)

I just called the production configuration hotline. There is an Easter Egg hidden in the production configurator!!

"We are still recommending the 48 amps a/c charger so we hid the High Amperage Charger Upgrade option.

Just type "charger" (no quotes) and it automagically appears:"

View attachment 101983

This just made my day. I'm on a Teslarian high since it will make a big difference when destination charging.

-Russ


I don't use this term lightly, but Telsa's decision to do charger-by-easter-egg is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

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This has to be the dumbest idea about charging the Tesla has had. It even beats the requiring purchase of a HPWC when ordering dual chargers that they did for a few months about two years ago. How is anyone who doesn't obsessively follow the forums supposed to know about this? Someone who may need or want it? Then it's too late when they find out. This will lead to some very unhappy customers. Why are they playing games like this? It's apparent they don't really want people to order it, but if so why do they continue to distribute 80A capable HPWCs to destinations?

Don't get me started on the dual charger/HPWC thing. That was when I ordered my car, so I didn't get that option. Then I ended up buying an HPWC anyway, when the cut the prices on those. So now I have a single charger car and an 80W HPWC. Lame.
 
Thank you very much. Exactly the amount of detail I'm looking for. So this new cars Turkish Ev company makes supporting 22kW charging means they support 32A cont. current on each phase leading to 96Amps and with 220V that is ~22kW? You think even when a small company like this can opt for this, Tesla not doing and limiting still to 72Amps at most with a new car like the X means they deem higher powered AC charging unnecessary? This company I'm talking about has no support for DC Fast charging by the way. (no Chademo, nothing like the SuC)

Tesla has sent signals to the marketplace that it believes AC charging is primarily intended for overnight charging and that higher current charging is unnecessary when you have a high-power DC charging infrastructure for road use. This is probably not the place to argue that point, but it's the signal they've sent. We've spoken (and they seem to have listened), saying the DC charging infrastructure isn't ubiquitous enough yet to make that claim.

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It seems they REALLY don't want to sell that option.

Woo, more speculation time - my guess is that right now they're still concerned that the 72A charger supplier may not be able to ramp-up. My guess is that it becomes a standard option in the design studio when everything's ramped up. Again, speculation.
 
Yes, because Tesla doesn't use the 380V L-L voltage; instead, it uses the L-N voltage of 220V.

Take a look at the top part of this graphic (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power ):

View attachment 102002

Tesla uses the voltages found between the black conductor (neutral) and each of the red, green, and blue conductors, which is 220V. But the "380V" comes from the voltage you'd measure between the red and green, or green and blue, or blue and red conductors.

I know it's complex - I'm trying to make it easier but it's not easy. :)

If the Turkish EV company can charge at 22 kW, then it has a charger capable of using 32A per phase. Tesla's Model S can do that same power with dual chargers, but I believe Model X will be limited to 16A per phase (10.56 kW), 50% of the Turkish EV's capability with standard charger, or 24A per phase (or nearly 16 kW), 75% of the Turkish EV's capability with the higher-current charger. Again, this is speculation as there have been no European specs released, I'm making an assumption based on the 48A/72A maximum single-phase power available.

Thank you so much! I actually understand this.

I know it is not the place but any sources I could read (and understand with no engineering background) about chargers? I know nothing but they convert AC to DC and pump into the battery. I believe they manage the CC-CV part. (watched in on a EEVBlog video about charging li-ion batteries) Like what makes them expensive, primary duties etc. More reading on EV charging would also be appreciated. For example I've heard communication is needed between the car as I hear contactors "pop" form my charging station and the car with two additional EVs when I plug it in. I asked the technicians and they said a Tesla couldn't be charged from that box despite there being 380V three phase 32A electricity and the same port "because they can't communicate."
 
Interesting approach by Tesla ... wonder why they are doing this?
Similar to hiding the Model S dual charger option in the accessory area.

attachment.php?attachmentid=101983.jpg
No, it's much worse that that. At least with the model S when an owner finds out about dual chargers it can be added later. This is a irreversible decision when ordered. Going to 72A isn't something the service center could just add to the existing charger, it would be a whole new charger at a much higher cost.

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Tesla has sent signals to the marketplace that it believes AC charging is primarily intended for overnight charging and that higher current charging is unnecessary when you have a high-power DC charging infrastructure for road use. This is probably not the place to argue that point, but it's the signal they've sent. We've spoken (and they seem to have listened), saying the DC charging infrastructure isn't ubiquitous enough yet to make that claim.
Someone there should know better than to believe their marketing hype about the supercharger network. Either that, or they need to get out of California more. Also maybe talk to the guy in the next cubicle who is sending 80A HPWC to destinations.
 
Someone there should know better than to believe their marketing hype about the supercharger network. Either that, or they need to get out of California more. Also maybe talk to the guy in the next cubicle who is sending 80A HPWC to destinations.

As an EV driver with a 40kWh pack, 12kW charging is decent for me although I'd be thrilled with 22kW on board charging capability. Mostly because that would enable road trips with my car. (public pay as you go charging stations here give up to 22kW) We don't have superchargers in my country yet for Teslas but if we did I think I'd need 22kW charging less as that would be the road trip enabler. (I envision that to be the case in 3 years with a Model 3 and the Turkish supercharging network)
 
I'm just an innocent bystander when it comes to the X, but I think the handling of the 72A charging is perfectly fine.

- the vast majority out there do not need 72A charging, so why make something more expensive to produce standard when it's of limited use to many?
- most buyers probably don't even know 72A was a possibility outside of us crazies on this forum
- stay on message re: SC network being the preferred method to charge quickly
- those that require faster charging are likely to ask about charging rates and availability of dual chargers, etc. before ordering, and will be routed to this "hidden" option. If this type of charging is a priority, you are not doing your DD if you don't even ask about charging rates/options. I'll change my opinion if we learn that Tesla employees are not aware of this option or do not make customers aware when asked.
- those that have written to Tesla and follow every single development of the car on this forum and elsewhere will be aware of the 72A charging and can get it still. This is in direct response to your requests - you asked and they listened.
- the earliest of adopters that put out significant money for years and VIPs (i.e., Founders and Sigs) deserve to have the highest options standard.

The frustration is understandable given all the X delays I guess, but in the end you are getting exactly what you asked for - 72A charging if you need it. I agree with others that the 72A charger is likely not being produced at acceptable rates to fill all orders, so this is a better way to go. Would you want all the cars to be delayed (possibly a long time) in order to implement an option that maybe 5% of owners will care about? No, make it optional.
 
I'm just an innocent bystander when it comes to the X, but I think the handling of the 72A charging is perfectly fine.

- the vast majority out there do not need 72A charging, so why make something more expensive to produce standard when it's of limited use to many?
- most buyers probably don't even know 72A was a possibility outside of us crazies on this forum
- stay on message re: SC network being the preferred method to charge quickly
- those that require faster charging are likely to ask about charging rates and availability of dual chargers, etc. before ordering, and will be routed to this "hidden" option. If this type of charging is a priority, you are not doing your DD if you don't even ask about charging rates/options. I'll change my opinion if we learn that Tesla employees are not aware of this option or do not make customers aware when asked.
- those that have written to Tesla and follow every single development of the car on this forum and elsewhere will be aware of the 72A charging and can get it still. This is in direct response to your requests - you asked and they listened.
- the earliest of adopters that put out significant money for years and VIPs (i.e., Founders and Sigs) deserve to have the highest options standard.

The frustration is understandable given all the X delays I guess, but in the end you are getting exactly what you asked for - 72A charging if you need it. I agree with others that the 72A charger is likely not being produced at acceptable rates to fill all orders, so this is a better way to go. Would you want all the cars to be delayed (possibly a long time) in order to implement an option that maybe 5% of owners will care about? No, make it optional.
Optional is fine. Optional only to those who know the secret password isn't.
 
I don't use this term lightly, but Telsa's decision to do charger-by-easter-egg is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

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Don't get me started on the dual charger/HPWC thing. That was when I ordered my car, so I didn't get that option. Then I ended up buying an HPWC anyway, when the cut the prices on those. So now I have a single charger car and an 80W HPWC. Lame.

The second charger is an accessory that can be installed at an SC.
 
@Texas +1
@esk8mw - I'd be willing to place a modest wager that the number of folks opting for the 72A charger is way north of 5%

I just picked a random number. My point is that the people who care about this option will be made aware of it and have the opportunity to buy it. It certainly doesn't make sense to delay the car for everyone (likely outcome of making it standard, just a guess) on account of an option like this. Normal car companies in this situation would 86 the option if cost, supply or delays factored in in any way. Tesla is nimble, listened to the feedback and made the option available on a limited basis to try and split the difference. I think they are to be commended. Again, just IMO.
 
I just picked a random number. My point is that the people who care about this option will be made aware of it and have the opportunity to buy it. It certainly doesn't make sense to delay the car for everyone (likely outcome of making it standard, just a guess) on account of an option like this. Normal car companies in this situation would 86 the option if cost, supply or delays factored in in any way. Tesla is nimble, listened to the feedback and made the option available on a limited basis to try and split the difference. I think they are to be commended. Again, just IMO.

I agree - but an Easter Egg ???
 
No, it's much worse that that. At least with the model S when an owner finds out about dual chargers it can be added later. This is a irreversible decision when ordered. Going to 72A isn't something the service center could just add to the existing charger, it would be a whole new charger at a much higher cost.

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Someone there should know better than to believe their marketing hype about the supercharger network. Either that, or they need to get out of California more. Also maybe talk to the guy in the next cubicle who is sending 80A HPWC to destinations.
YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!

This is wrong on so many levels. My concern is that new MX market will comprise of customers who will likely do even more long distance travel. These customers will travel outside of SC rich areas (like California) and will rely on destination chargers and faster CHAdeMO.

I love how Tesla is listening to customers, however, and making changes. I just think they need to utilize focus groups outside of California. His will be especially important when they roll out the M3, IMO, and acquire customers in rural areas in the middle of the USA where they will never be a lot of SCs.
 
I don't use this term lightly, but Telsa's decision to do charger-by-easter-egg is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Don't get me started on the dual charger/HPWC thing. That was when I ordered my car, so I didn't get that option.
Then I ended up buying an HPWC anyway, when the cut the prices on those. So now I have a single charger car and an 80W HPWC. Lame.

The second charger is an accessory that can be installed at an SC.

Read the fine print ... the 72A high Amperage charger cannot be added after production.

72A.PNG