Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[McRat]

...
Resetting the barrier would likely have saved his life. ...

Complete conjecture. It might have taken several lives if he was traveling very fast, and the barrier allowed the car to spin into traffic.
Also conjecture.

A rational person looking out the windshield with average driving skills at the full speed limit would have survived even with the entire idiot cushion omitted. Because we don't drive headfirst into concrete blocks we can see from a 1/4 mile away. We observe. We steer. We brake.

So we know he was not rational driving with average skills. The outcome could have been worse, or better. Crushing a compact car and killing the occupants is common with heavy cars. We had a doctor in a Tesla street racing another doctor in a Benz on a toll road down here and kill a couple folk in a Honda car.

Street racing and killing 2 people recklessly? If you are rich, no worse than traffic ticket. No jail, no felony, nothing. Gotta love California Courts. Doctor gets probation, community service for Laguna Canyon Road crash that killed 2 men – Orange County Register

A young man of meager means would spend years in jail for that. While we seldom prosecute killing people with our cars, there are exceptions, and one is street racing. Another is drunk driving. The Dr just ran out of talent in a car he could not control.

The family is suing Caltrans because they did not design the road correctly for street racing. Of course. Just like the family of driver will sue Caltrans in this case as well. It would not matter if the idiot cushion was perfect or not. The driver really isn't to blame in our state. Extenuating circumstances are always the cause.

 

[arnolddeleon]

...
Either way, I'm fairly certain that most of these issues are moot. I've recently learned that the person who died was an Apple employee, which makes it very surprising that he would cut suddenly back onto 101, because that's not the way you would get to Apple from there, typically.
...

Apple also has a facilities in Sunnyvale where going straight on 101 is the thing to do. So I don't think we can conclude anything about his destination w/o more information.

Also FWIW I live in Cupertino, have worked in Palo Alto and I've taken this ramp many times in the past. I don't take it on a regular basis anymore and but on the occasions that I do, even though I know about the split, I still find a little surprising and awkward.

arnold

 

[raihan]

"braking for crossing path collisions, such as that present in the Florida fatal crash, are outside the expected performance capabilities of the system."
This is what NHTSA said about the Tesla crash in Florida. In plain English, yes, Tesla's will always crash in the given circumstance!
So NHTSA basically said Teslas are defective and will definitely crash in the given situation, but then they went on and said, Tesla is working as designed, so we will not blame them But they did admit Tesla is defective, although most people didn't notice it. A class action lawsuit could be in order.
You can read the full report below:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF

 

[SMAlset]

"braking for crossing path collisions, such as that present in the Florida fatal crash, are outside the expected performance capabilities of the system."
This is what NHTSA said about the Tesla crash in Florida. In plain English, yes, Tesla's will always crash in the given circumstance!
So NHTSA basically said Teslas are defective and will definitely crash in the given situation, but then they went on and said, Tesla is working as designed, so we will not blame them But they did admit Tesla is defective, although most people didn't notice it. A class action lawsuit could be in order.
You can read the full report below:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF

Ah a first time poster. Don't think you understood what you read and came to the wrong conclusion. Here's how they summed it up:

"NHTSA’s examination did not identify any defects in the design or performance of the AEB or Autopilot systems of the subject vehicles nor any incidents in which the systems did not perform as designed. AEB systems used in the automotive industry through MY 2016 are rear-end collision avoidance technologies that are not designed to reliably perform in all crash modes, including crossing path collisions."

1. It said they did NOT find defects in design or performance of the Tesla.
2. Further said it did NOT find any incidents where the systems failed to perform as intended.
3. All Automatic Emergency Braking system across the board in the whole automotive industry aren't designed to perform in all crash modes INCLUDING crossing path collisions, which is what the Florida accident case was. So Tesla's system was on par in that regard with all other AEB systems out there in the industry.

Hope you don't own any car built through Model Year 2016 or you're going to be very unhappy in a crash, in fact even one including a crossing path collision. Your AEB system on that car might not reliably perform in a crash. But now you are forewarned.

 

[X Fan]

Off topic, but their accent would make it extremely hard for me to be in their company. I wonder if I'd get used to it over time. It's extremely offputting to watch it jarringly in a video all of a sudden, so I suppose that's part of it.

Having done a tour on the Midway many years ago as part of a Marine Corps squadron I can attest that Naval and Marine Corps Aviators are damn good.

Typical owners as found in crash’s are just not as skilled.

 

[Teslie]

"NHTSA’s examination did not identify any defects in the design or performance of the AEB or Autopilot systems of the subject vehicles nor any incidents in which the systems did not perform as designed. AEB systems used in the automotive industry through MY 2016 are rear-end collision avoidance technologies that are not designed to reliably perform in all crash modes, including crossing path collisions."

Your AEB system on that car might not reliably perform in a crash. But now you are forewarned.

Then somebody should stop Tesla calling their driving assist system AUTOPILOT !

 

[bro1999]

Then somebody should stop Tesla calling their driving assist system AUTOPILOT !

The government may force them to soon.

 

[mongo]

Then somebody should stop Tesla calling their driving assist system AUTOPILOT !

An airplane Autopilot will fly you into

• The side of a mountain
• Another plane
  
• The ground/ out of fuel/ Hypoxia
  
• Tell you take over suddenly

Yeah, maybe it's a bad thing to compare yourself too...

 

[mongo]

Complete conjecture. It might have taken several lives if he was traveling very fast, and the barrier allowed the car to spin into traffic.

Non-conjectures:

• A reset barrier removes energy from the crash reducing injury
  
• A reset barrier tends to keep cars on path for near head on collisions
• The Tesla did collide with 2 other cars due to deflecting off the barrier
  
• The barrier has less crossection than the concrete behind it

 

[22522]

Late notification from a GPS can contribute to accidents.

I choose Apple navigation because it tells me with more notice.

Does anyone here know the parameters used to determine time of notification?

Speed is obvious.
1) Do they use traffic density and how that influences time to change lanes?

2) Do they use entrance ramp red light patterns to judge congestion and notify earlier.

3) Do they use the vehicles sensors to determine is the vehicle is stuck in a cluster. To trigger earlier notification?


Early notification can make a world of difference.

 

[bro1999]

It's crazy that the point of initial impact with the barrier and where the X ended up landing are literally separated by just a few feet. The X literally came to an instantaneous stop (aside from the front flip described by eye witnesses). I can only imagine the G's the driver was exposed to. A driver in a NASCAR car with all its safety features may not have survived that impact.

 

[X Fan]

Left unsaid through 22 pages but appropriate: RIP to this Apple employee and condolences to his family!

 

[SMAlset]

Has their been an official word on this before we go posting it?

 

[DOCAL]

"braking for crossing path collisions, such as that present in the Florida fatal crash, are outside the expected performance capabilities of the system."
.
.
So NHTSA basically said Teslas are defective and will definitely crash in the given situation, but then they went on and said, Tesla is working as designed, so we will not blame them But they did admit Tesla is defective, although most people didn't notice it. A class action lawsuit could be in order.

I see the trolls have arrived.

AEB won't stop you driving off a cliff, it's not designed to, that doesn't mean it's defective if you end up doing so.
The NTSB said that the car behaved as designed, which is in line with the expectations of AEB systems from any manufacturer.

 

[DOCAL]

Then somebody should stop Tesla calling their driving assist system AUTOPILOT !

Despite what you might think, the autopilot on most planes is pretty dumb. Most will just hold altitude and follow a course, there are many ways they can kill you. Such as holding a constant rate climb right into a stall.

An airplane Autopilot will fly you into

• The side of a mountain
• Another plane
  
• The ground/ out of fuel/ Hypoxia
  
• Tell you take over suddenly

Yeah, maybe it's a bad thing to compare yourself too...

Exactly, if you put in a direct line between San Francisco and Las Vegas at 10000 ft, you're going to get a view of the mountains which will last you the rest of your life.

 

[timvracer]

It just occurred to me... Could the rails of the cushion device played a role here? Perhaps he dived right to get to 101 estimating he indeed could make it before the barrier, but did not see the rails? This could have caused the car to skip and lose traction on an aggressive move and hit the barrier both pretty square, but at an angle putting the LF direct into the cushion.

I simply find it hard to believe a driver willing to make an aggressive move as that would simply misjudge the impact point to such a degree (glancing blow I might believe, but not driving square into the barrier)

This is why I still believe either the above, a car pushing him into it, or AP failure.

 

[lemketron]

I simply find it hard to believe a driver willing to make an aggressive move as that would simply misjudge the impact point to such a degree (glancing blow I might believe, but not driving square into the barrier)

This is why I still believe either the above, a car pushing him into it, or AP failure.

Sounds like he was a friend of a friend, a great guy, husband, father of two, and a software engineer at Apple (and Electronic Arts before that). I haven’t seen his name in the news yet so I won’t post it here but we are clearly still missing critical information on what exactly happened and why.

I’m really hoping all the good info in this thread is picked up by those who are investigating but I’m also hoping that authorities have talked with eyewitnesses to figure out exactly what happened and when and perhaps why. Unless and until that info is reported publicly were just left to speculate what might have happened.

It really sucks the decelerating barrier wasn’t properly restored to absorb the energy from the impact; hopefully that will be improved going forward...

 

[bro1999]

Sounds like he was a friend of a friend, a great guy, husband, father of two, and a software engineer at Apple (and Electronic Arts before that). I haven’t seen his name in the news yet so I won’t post it here but we are clearly still missing critical information on what exactly happened and why.

I’m really hoping all the good info in this thread is picked up by those who are investigating but I’m also hoping that authorities have talked with eyewitnesses to figure out exactly what happened and when and perhaps why. Unless and until that info is reported publicly were just left to speculate what might have happened.

It really sucks the decelerating barrier wasn’t properly restored to absorb the energy from the impact; hopefully that will be improved going forward...

SOMEONE out there saw the accident. It didn't happen in the middle of the night in Nowheresville, USA, but rather in busy CA during morning rush hour. Hopefully whoever witnessed the accident steps forward and tells the authorities what they saw.

 

[cbdream99]

There are many theories and speculations so far, really hope eyewitnesses can come forward. There are no skid marks, something terrible must have happened. He should be familiar with the area and there must have other cars around him at that morning hours.

 

[SMAlset]

Then somebody should stop Tesla calling their driving assist system AUTOPILOT !

Before getting into any new car they aren't familiar with, people should read the manual to familiarize themselves with what kind of electronic equipment they have in their cars and learn how to use it for safety sake and all those other drivers on the road. Autopilot is a common term for assisted systems and betting it never indicated it was driverless. Helps to be a knowledgeable consumer.