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Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation One Month (Story)
- Thread starter AMP3Dm3
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Thanks Dr J at the time I posted I did not know (Brain fart moment) but later I thought about and it dawned on me. But thanks for the reply.
dhrivnak
Active Member
You are forgetting the need to balance. Unless you allow the pack to balance your pack will degrade and your range will be limited to the weakest cell. I know on the Roadster you need to charge at least to 87% for the pack to balance. If you only charge to 80% you miss the option to balance and when you need that extra range you will not have it.
Model S, X, and 3 balancing is different than on the Roadster. Remember the Roadster was designed more than 10 years ago and Tesla has learned a lot since then.
dhrivnak
Active Member
While true I have note heard the limits have changed. The challenge with lithium batteries is that the voltage is nearly flat from 10% to 90% charge. You can only see weak and strong cells a a low or high state of charge. Below is a representative graph. As you can see the voltage is very flat for most of the capacity.
I went months charging just to 80% or lower. I have 'Scan my Tesla' to check the CAN bus and my pack never went out of balance in any significant way. In fact it is and always has been very well balanced. It is a myth that balancing only happens at a high level or you would have to charge to a certain level for the pack to stay balanced.
I have been driving a model 3 (LR AWD) for about a month now. I have so far kept the state of charge between about 30% and 80% almost all the time. One time I charged to about 90% at a supercharger during a 250 mile trip.
Is that bad to never go higher? I actually have no idea what the range in miles would be if I were to charge to 100% because I have never done that. I just thought this would be good for the battery to keep near 50% or 55% as much as possible. Any advice is welcome!
Is that bad to never go higher? I actually have no idea what the range in miles would be if I were to charge to 100% because I have never done that. I just thought this would be good for the battery to keep near 50% or 55% as much as possible. Any advice is welcome!
My advice is to stop thinking about the battery. The battery will be just fine. No reason to charge to 100% unless you’re going on a trip— but don’t hesitate to do so then. Starting a trip with 100% charge at home makes your first supercharger stop shorter. If you’re waiting for a charge at a supercharger then leave when you get the range + buffer you need regardless of SOC, but if you’re eating at the stop and the car is waiting for you, let it keep charging even up to 100% until you’re ready to continue on your trip.
Wow, a lot to read through here!
I've had my P3D+ since 8/7, and have put 2,050 miles on it. I noticed my 90% drop from 279 to 273, and then recently to 270. I charge every few days to 90%, and have supercharged twice to just under 100%.
Feeling a little concerned, I reached out to Tesla support, and this was the response I got:
"Thank you for reaching out to Tesla Support. We do greatly apologize for the delay in responding to your email. There are many factors involved in the actual range of your Tesla, and why you may feel that your actual range or charge capacity does not match up to the high voltage pack capacity. The battery pack is sized to provide range. Our range is carefully calculated and measured according to rigorously reviewed standards. In contrast, a vehicle’s battery pack energy capacity varies with the rate of discharge and cell temperature. The range should not viewed as an Odometer as the range shown is an estimation of miles that can be driven after the Tesla has analyzed the outside environment, features normally used, and driving style.
If there is a concern with the range of the vehicle, we will be happy to work through this to address any issues being experienced
To improve your range, please see these tips:
Personal driving habits have the greatest impact on the range of your vehicle?
Drive the speed limit and avoid frequent and rapid acceleration.
Better utilize, and/or adjust the sensitivity for Regenerative Braking (Standard is recommended)
Keep tires at standard air pressure.
Lighten cargo load by removing unnecessary items.
Keep windows closed for better aerodynamic efficiency.
Limit the use of resources such as heating and air conditioning. Using seat heaters to keep warm is more efficient than heating the cabin.
Enable Range Mode
?Controls > Driving > Range Mode
Environmental Factors
Exposure to rapid temperature changes, or long exposure to extreme heat, or cold can effect the expected range. (This effect is not permanent, and does not change the health and degradation of the battery over time)
More Range Tips can be found in the "Getting Maximum Range" section of the Owner's Manual."
The section in bold is quite interesting, as many of us have debated this for quite some time. I'm being told that if I want to see 310 rated miles at 100% charge, then i need to adjust my driving style. Hmmmm.
I've had my P3D+ since 8/7, and have put 2,050 miles on it. I noticed my 90% drop from 279 to 273, and then recently to 270. I charge every few days to 90%, and have supercharged twice to just under 100%.
Feeling a little concerned, I reached out to Tesla support, and this was the response I got:
"Thank you for reaching out to Tesla Support. We do greatly apologize for the delay in responding to your email. There are many factors involved in the actual range of your Tesla, and why you may feel that your actual range or charge capacity does not match up to the high voltage pack capacity. The battery pack is sized to provide range. Our range is carefully calculated and measured according to rigorously reviewed standards. In contrast, a vehicle’s battery pack energy capacity varies with the rate of discharge and cell temperature. The range should not viewed as an Odometer as the range shown is an estimation of miles that can be driven after the Tesla has analyzed the outside environment, features normally used, and driving style.
If there is a concern with the range of the vehicle, we will be happy to work through this to address any issues being experienced
To improve your range, please see these tips:
Personal driving habits have the greatest impact on the range of your vehicle?
Drive the speed limit and avoid frequent and rapid acceleration.
Better utilize, and/or adjust the sensitivity for Regenerative Braking (Standard is recommended)
Keep tires at standard air pressure.
Lighten cargo load by removing unnecessary items.
Keep windows closed for better aerodynamic efficiency.
Limit the use of resources such as heating and air conditioning. Using seat heaters to keep warm is more efficient than heating the cabin.
Enable Range Mode
?Controls > Driving > Range Mode
Environmental Factors
Exposure to rapid temperature changes, or long exposure to extreme heat, or cold can effect the expected range. (This effect is not permanent, and does not change the health and degradation of the battery over time)
More Range Tips can be found in the "Getting Maximum Range" section of the Owner's Manual."
The section in bold is quite interesting, as many of us have debated this for quite some time. I'm being told that if I want to see 310 rated miles at 100% charge, then i need to adjust my driving style. Hmmmm.
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Sigh.... unfortunately the entire response is very good, useful, and accurate... except for that statement which is patently wrong! The range shown is rated range. It is a constant miles per kWh derived from the BMS's measurement of the remaining capacity of the battery. That is what makes it valuable. If it were subject to some goofball algorithm, like the remaining range calculation in the BMW I just unloaded, it would be worthless!!! I really wish Tesla would control their communications better and not confuse their customers with this crap.
Yeah, agree with Tomas 110%. Because it's just true. It's a rated range, not affected by driving habits, energy usage, etc, and that's what makes that number valuable.
Just look at the range calculations in the Apps section - for trailing 5, 15, 30 miles, estimates based on actual usage.
First, they're typically wildly different in estimated range than the Rated Range number you see next to your speedo.
Second, they put the Rated wh/mi grey line on the graphs of those 5/15/30 trailing mile estimates for a reason, so you can compare against your actual wh/mi consumption (also shown on the graphs as a horizontal dashed line) and so you can see that, when you are using more than the rated wh/mi (dashed line above the grey rated wh/mi), your estimated range is LESS than the rated range number, and if you're dashed line showing actual wh/mi is below the rated wh/mi grey line, then your estimated range based on actual usage will EXCEED the rated range number displayed next to your speedo.
It gives you a backstop/static number against which to measure your actual energy usage/range, and so you can see how your estimated range increases or decreases, when you exceed or stay below the rated wh/mi number.
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One more data point. I'm experiencing something similar to @007Bond. My rated range at 100% charge has always been 295-300 miles. It stayed that way through v44. Well, I just updated to v46.2 and overnight charged to 275 miles at 90%, or imputed range of 306 miles at full charge. Good to see!
M109Rider
Active Member
I have 13,260km’s / 8,240 miles on it now.
For the first few weeks owning it (when it was still warm out), I charged to 70%. That seemed to be enough range for summer.
Since winter arrived, I now charge to 90% every day.
My state of charge looked a little off when I was charging to 70% daily. However, since charging to 90%, the SOC has been bang on.
I charged to 100% for the first time on a trip this weekend. Happy to report I’m at 499km’s / 310 miles. !!
Weird this is the first time I have noticed this, I would blame FW but I have had 2018.50 7e49f8a for over a week and have several charges so no idea. Only thing really different is today is much colder than the past several days. So I thought maybe it had something to do with battery temp. Like it got to 90% and since it was 30 today the battery continued to warm after the charging completed and topped out at 92%.
Not sure on that as the charge was from 30% to 90% @ 48amps so seems the battery should have had plenty of time to get warm.
I will have to see what it is in several hours once the battery cools down.
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