Mary Barra, what is going through your mind right now?

[Jeff N]

According to the images I've seen, you lift the hood and all the drivetrains stuff is jammed in there. Yes, batteries are underneath because they need so many, otherwise I'd have expected them to replace the rear fuel tank with a block of them like the Spark. I'm almost surprised they didn't put them on roof racks in a Thule box.

And the front drivetrain of the dual motor Model 3 will be under its hood as well and will roughly be the same size and mounting location (if it is like the S). The reason the Tesla looks less cluttered is because the under the hood area is larger so they can spread it out more and hide it under black plastic panels. Having a shorter hood area, and thus a shorter car, is a bonus for parking in metro urban areas where Bolt EVs will tend to be clustered.

Permanent magnet motor... the electric equivalent to a cast iron engine block. Scalable?

It's just one of several ways to make an electric motor. It has advantages and disadvantages. GM has designed and built AC induction motors before (EV-1, Two-Mode Hybrid 2008-2013). Heck, they are building and using an AC induction motor as one of the two motors in the new 2017 Cadillac CT6 RWD plugin hybrid (the other motor is an AC PM). GM's new AC PM motors use new magnet manufacturing techniques that substantially reduce rare earth metals by using them primarily at the edges of the magnet where they are most useful. I think the new Volt's PM motor uses something like 40% less but that's from memory. The new Volt's other motor is a ferrite PM that uses no rare earth metals.

Front wheel drive, because they can drop the whole assembly in just like a 4 cylinder/transaxle unit. How will that crash-test? Probably with similar challenges to an ICE... i.e., 'not well', when stacked up against the M3.

If it's easy to drop down during repairs wouldn't that be a good thing? In any case, I think the Tesla front and rear drive unit probably drop down easily as well. Crash testing. Well, the Volt got 5-star Top Safety Pick and did among the better cars in the corner offset insurance institute test as well. I think Spark EV did pretty well also but will have to double check that. Time will tell what rating they get on the Bolt EV.

Bolt looks cramped, with the coimpartment sitting exactly where it would be in a Spark or other small ICE.

Looks cramped to you or actually has a cramped interior? The Bolt EV interior specs have already been published. Generally, it does as well as a Model S except in areas where the unusually wide Model S has better shoulder room etc. I believe the Bolt EV actually has better rear legroom than the S as well as good front legroom and it has very good headroom in front and rear. It also has lots of interior storage space (for its exterior size) that is easily accessible through the large hatch. So, it's not really cramped at all but you pay for that in a smaller car through higher ceilings and worse aerodynamics.

 

[McRat]

... But that's the whole point about GM. All of their vehicles are compromises, and so what they produce looks and drives like a compromise. ...

Every engineered product is a compromise. Probably least compromising US car this century was the 2014 Camaro Z/28. Compromises? Yeah it did have lightweight rear seats, but that's because of homologation, remove the seats and it bumps you a class. And it had a single speaker radio, but cars are required by law to make sounds for various alarms, and it was the easiest way since the warning sounds are BCM controlled and fed into the radio.

No AC, no automatic, no tire warranty (treadwear 60), no engine choices (427ci dry sump), etc. Just 4 massive tires, 4 massive brakes, 3 pedals, and 8 cylinders. Just add talent and tons of fuel.

 

[artsci]

Shouldn't have crushed those EV1's, GM....We remember....

Or worked to destroy and eliminate electric street cars and replace them with fossil fuel burning GM busses. This company has a very long and dreaful history of not only opposing electrification of transport but trying to destroy it.

 

[artsci]

If GM wants to get serious they should product this Buick as an EV and compete with the Model S.

View attachment 170816

That's exactly the point.

 

[beeeerock]

And the front drivetrain of the dual motor Model 3 will be under its hood as well and will roughly be the same size and mounting location (if it is like the S).

AWD will presumably have larger motor in rear, smaller in front. Bolt has all its horses penned into the front. And by the looks of the cutaway images, everything else as well.

The reason the Tesla looks less cluttered is because the under the hood area is larger so they can spread it out more and hide it under black plastic panels.

I suggest that the M3 looks less cluttered because it looks nice, and has a shape that's appealing. Styling was given consideration in the design process, and also contributes to the ridiculously low Cd. The bonus is additional crumple zone.

Having a shorter hood area, and thus a shorter car, is a bonus for parking in metro urban areas where Bolt EVs will tend to be clustered.

.... because they don't have a charge network to make travel between centres practical.

It's just one of several ways to make an electric motor. It has advantages and disadvantages. GM has designed and built AC induction motors before (EV-1, Two-Mode Hybrid 2008-2013). Heck, they are building and using an AC induction motor as one of the two motors in the new 2017 Cadillac CT6 RWD plugin hybrid (the other motor is an AC PM).

There are reasons why Tesla didn't go with a permanent magnet solution, beyond their name, which can be found on their blog site. Rare earth metals, while not as rare as their name implies, require significant mining and processing efforts. The design is also more difficult to cool (or so I've read). In the electrical motor orchard, the PM is low hanging fruit. Hasn't seen much sun and isn't nearly a sweet. And takes more effort to harvest. Tesla doesn't do things in half-measures, so it makes sense that they went with the motor design that the did.

If it's easy to drop down during repairs wouldn't that be a good thing? In any case, I think the Tesla front and rear drive unit probably drop down easily as well. Crash testing. Well, the Volt got 5-star Top Safety Pick and did among the better cars in the corner offset insurance institute test as well. I think Spark EV did pretty well also but will have to double check that. Time will tell what rating they get on the Bolt EV.

ICE front ends are designed in such a way that the engine is directed under the passengers in a frontal impact, rather than through them. The more stuff you have up front, the less opportunity you have to design the structure to protect the occupants in an accident... you make sacrifices to accommodate all the 'stuff'. With the frunk liner removed, it's very easy to see how Tesla put safety first... even in the AWD model. The cutaway below isn't convincing me.

Looks cramped to you or actually has a cramped interior? The Bolt EV interior specs have already been published. Generally, it does as well as a Model S except in areas where the unusually wide Model S has better shoulder room etc. I believe the Bolt EV actually has better rear legroom than the S as well as good front legroom and it has very good headroom in front and rear. It also has lots of interior storage space (for its exterior size) that is easily accessible through the large hatch. So, it's not really cramped at all but you pay for that in a smaller car through higher ceilings and worse aerodynamics.

I don't see myself riding in the back of this... however, I've seen stuff from the M3 rides that suggested a 6'2" guy had over 6" of space in front of his knees to the back of the front seat.

 

[smartypnz]

Most Tesla owners also own a Gas car. Why?

Same reason that in the early 1900's most gas car owners also owned a horse. Infrastructure. This time it's being implemented much quicker.

Question should be "How many years before ICE cars will have problems finding gas stations?"

 

[Jeff N]

AWD will presumably have larger motor in rear, smaller in front. Bolt has all its horses penned into the front. And by the looks of the cutaway images, everything else as well.

The Bolt EV's motor is 150 kW (200 HP). The non-performance Model S front motor is 165 kW (221 HP).

We don't yet know what the motor specs are for the Model 3.

I don't see myself riding in the back of this... however, I've seen stuff from the M3 rides that suggested a 6'2" guy had over 6" of space in front of his knees to the back of the front seat.

That guy in the rear seat of the Bolt EV looked like he was pretty tall to me. We don't have interior specs for the Model 3 but we do for Model S and Bolt:

Model S / Bolt EV
Rear Headroom
35.3 / 37.9
Rear Legroom
35.4 / 36.5
Front Headroom
38.8 / 39.7
Front Legroom
42.7 / 41.6

 

[Drivin]

Question should be "How many years before ICE cars will have problems finding gas stations?"

If you watch the Walking Dead, you will see that even in the case of a zombie apocalypse there are plenty of gas stations with fuel and munchies. Not sure if a Tesla charging station would still be getting electricity from the grid.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't see myself riding in the back of this... however, I've seen stuff from the M3 rides that suggested a 6'2" guy had over 6" of space in front of his knees to the back of the front seat.

Wow, how tall is this person? The paper specs of the Bolt doesn't suggest that it would be this cramped, but that picture makes it look mighty cramped.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If you watch the Walking Dead, you will see that even in the case of a zombie apocalypse there are plenty of gas stations with fuel and munchies. Not sure if a Tesla charging station would still be getting electricity from the grid.

Gas stations don't work without electricity, so it's not a realistic situation. Elon actually touched on this. With the supercharger stations, when they get around to adding solar panels and storage, you would be able to at least get a charge even with the grid down.

 

[Drivin]

Gas stations don't work without electricity, so it's not a realistic situation. Elon actually touched on this. With the supercharger stations, when they get around to adding solar panels and storage, you would be able to at least get a charge even with the grid down.

Of course. That is why any good survivalist will have a hand operated pump to get the gas out of the tank.

But gas stations can also add solar power for the pumps...or at least to keep the sodas cool.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Of course. That is why any good survivalist will have a hand operated pump to get the gas out of the tank.

That's true, but who carries around a hand pump in their car (or even owns one at all)? This solution is frequently mentioned, but not very practical for most people. Siphoning gas from abandoned cars or backup generators is a lot more likely.

But gas stations can also add solar power for the pumps...or at least to keep the sodas cool.

True also, but low chance of gas stations going through the effort for that, while superchargers is more likely.

 

[Drivin]

That's true, but who carries around a hand pump in their car (or even owns one at all)? This solution is frequently mentioned, but not very practical for most people. Siphoning gas from abandoned cars or backup generators is a lot more likely.

A good survivalist would.

True also, but low chance of gas stations going through the effort for that, while superchargers is more likely.

But then you are competing against for the few slots at a supercharger - if you think labor day in LA is bad at a supercharger, wait until the 1% in LA come out of their bunkers to charge their cars.

 

[sandpiper]

Every engineered product is a compromise.

To varying degrees. Tesla had many many opportunities to compromise on the Model S. I am 100% certain that at many meetings, one or more engineers, accountants, manufacturing people stood up and said "that won't work", "it will cost too much", "it's never been done before", etc... And I am sure that more than one of these folks wound up kicking a can down the road afterward. Sometimes "compromise", is synonymous with "doing it the easy way".

GM's production cars, exude this lazy sort of compromise. They're boring, bland, and don't inspire a whit of lust in people who look at them. The car that you're talking about (the Camaro) is interesting in large part because it's a nostalgic throwback to a day when GM really did have a passion to make interesting and innovative vehicles. When I was a kid, I dreamed of owning a Trans AM, a Camaro or Vette. And a Cadillac had a real status associated with it. Talk to the kids today, and ask what car they'd love to own. There's not a GM product on the list, excepting the occasional Vette or pimped up Escalade.

Let's see what GM does with the Avista. It really is a beautiful vehicle and it looks fairly close to production ready. Does it make it to production, or does it get compromised to death and end up looking like yet another cruze/impala/malibu rento-car blandmobile? What we've seen thus far of the Bolt is not inspiring.

 

[Eugene Ash]

In case anyone is on LinkedIn, read exactly what is going on in Mary's head, from herself: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/my-metric-success-earn-customers-life-mary-barra
Leave a comment, be nice ; )

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

That guy in the rear seat of the Bolt EV looked like he was pretty tall to me.

Look again. Pretty sure it's a girl....

 

[CuriousG]

If you watch the Walking Dead, you will see that even in the case of a zombie apocalypse there are plenty of gas stations with fuel and munchies. Not sure if a Tesla charging station would still be getting electricity from the grid.

So you're comparing something that's fictitious to real life? I would think the gas stations would be one of the first places to be looted in addition to all the food.

 

[Drivin]

So you're comparing something that's fictitious to real life? I would think the gas stations would be one of the first places to be looted in addition to all the food.

Uhhhhh. This thread is about a fictitious car. Only a prototype costs and it is 18 months from production.

 

[SpiceWare]

If you watch the Walking Dead, you will see that even in the case of a zombie apocalypse there are plenty of gas stations with fuel and munchies. Not sure if a Tesla charging station would still be getting electricity from the grid.

Let's add some reality to your fiction - gas goes bad. A couple months after you buy it the gas will start to turn into gum and varnish, which will cause major problems by clogging the fuel lines and filters. Yes there are fuel stabilizers you can put into the gas to extend the shelf live up to 15 months, I add it to the two 5 gallon tanks I fill up at the start of hurricane season, however the gas stations would not have put that in before the outbreak. According to The Walking Dead timeline when Rick wakes up at the start of the series its already been 2 months since the outbreak, so their vehicles would soon start failing due to bad gas.

 

[Jeff N]

Look again. Pretty sure it's a girl....

Maybe, but guys can also have long hair. Let's just say that person sitting in the back of the Bolt EV looks unusually tall.