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Lucid (Atieva) reveal is December 14th. I'll be there, let you know afterwards.

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They simply don't have enough hardware on the car, period.
I was unaware that you were the world's foremost expert on autonomous driving and deep neural networks. You can name any hardware you think you might need and I can tell you why you don't.

Autopilot (version 1) will allow hands free driving from onramp to offramp
Where does it say that's enabled in any current or past software? AP1 does not currently do onramp to offramp. It was proposed that it *might* be a feature in 8.0 but was later deemed not ready. Nowhere in the release notes does it say it currently has this feature.
 
I was unaware that you were the world's foremost expert on autonomous driving and deep neural networks. You can name any hardware you think you might need and I can tell you why you don't.
Full self driving requires hardware that works in all weather. Cameras on the side and back of a vehicle, without wipers, simply don't. It's really as simple as that. They need something that can see behind the car, even in a light rain shower.

Where does it say that's enabled in any current or past software? AP1 does not currently do onramp to offramp. It was proposed that it *might* be a feature in 8.0 but was later deemed not ready. Nowhere in the release notes does it say it currently has this feature.
no, it doesn't say that it currently has that feature, Tesla said that it will have "within a few months" over 2 years ago. They haven't delivered on it, and there's no indication they plan to ever do so. That's why I said they lied. they promised something, but never delivered.
 
Right -- it was initially promised during the "Dual Motor/Autopilot" Unveiling in 2014. They didn't deliver -- that is green1's point.
Supposedly that's what 8.1 is all about. We'll just have to see.

This first thing I know of that people buy on speculation is EAP and self driving... every other Tesla feature you bought the car for what it did at that moment. If there was an upgrade then awesome, if not then you still got what you paid for.
 
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Supposedly that's what 8.1 is all about. We'll just have to see.
If you think they're going to remove the restriction, the one that they have INCREASED with every single update... yeah... right.
But hey, if they did, I'd actually update. But in fact, it's far MORE likely that they will in fact place even more restrictions on autosteer, as they have done on each and every update since 7.0

Thing is, that's only one of their many lies, they have a LOT more to make good on before I'd see Tesla as an ethical company worth doing business with.
 
You mean keeping your hands on the wheel which the instructions say you should do from day one?!
These are not broken promises but unrealistic expectations which go against documentation.
If they promised that it would be "hands free" (which they did, repeatedly) then the restrictions, documented or not, are breaking that promise. If they could not deliver on what they promised, then they shouldn't have taken money in exchange for making said promise.
 
I watched
, the dual motor /AP anouncement. EM outlined the features, including lane keeping etc., not including hands-off on-ramp to off-ramp, including self-park. He said he would like self-plugging via snake and other features, and evdn said yhese woild be news to his engineers. Listen for yourselves.
The "D" event formal presentation isn't the only place they communicated these features. They also used the Tesla website (many times modified since), many media interviews, and several demonstrations of the product.
 
Autopilot promises at 6:12 minute mark


yes, as 3Victoria mentioned... there's no promise that it's capable of hands free onramp to offramp.

Elon is more of a do what I say not as I do kind of guy. The general public has proven they can't seem to handle hands free and pay attention at the same time so the public demanded reminders like other manufacturers have on their ADAS especially after the Florida incident.

Also, that reporter was hot. I'd try to impress her too. ;)
 
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- Autopilot (version 1) will allow hands free driving from onramp to offramp

green1 - you need to stop this nonsense of hijacking and trolling every topic.

AP1 does absolutely what was promised - on-ramp to offramp self-driving. Just because you are asked to touch the steering periodically doesn't mean Musk lied. You are insulting thousands of Tesla owners like me who use it every day and are more than thrilled on what AP1 does to our daily commutes.

You have made your silly exaggerated arguments over a hundred times in dozen of topics here. You need to stop lying and spreading FUD. Folks tolerating here, doesn't mean they are taking you seriously
 
green1 - you need to stop this nonsense of hijacking and trolling every topic.
I didn't even want to go there, people were asking what edge Lucid had, I replied with one. Others took it from there asking for details and spouting mis-truths.

AP1 does absolutely what was promised - on-ramp to offramp self-driving. Just because you are asked to touch the steering periodically doesn't mean Musk lied. You are insulting thousands of Tesla owners like me who use it every day and are more than thrilled on what AP1 does to our daily commutes.
If Elon hadn't specifially stated "without touching any controls" maybe, except those were his exact words. So having to touch the steering wheel means that he LIED I don't care how happy you are with it, I care whether it does what was promised, so far it doesn't do almost any of what was promised. it doesn't do hands free as promised, it doesn't come pick you up at your front door by checking your calendar as promised, it doesn't react to pedestrians, stop signs and traffic lights as promised, and it doesn't even avoid collisions as promised (only reduces the impact of an already unavoidable collision (per the manual)) Tesla made each and every one of these promises, they haven't fulfilled any of them.

You have made your silly exaggerated arguments over a hundred times in dozen of topics here. You need to stop lying and spreading FUD. Folks tolerating here, doesn't mean they are taking you seriously
And you need to take off your rose coloured glasses and quit lying to people to tell them that things that clearly were promised never were. There is documented evidence of each of these promises, revising history after the fact doesn't help anyone.

As for whether people take me seriously or not. Each person can judge that for themselves, it is not your place to tell me what I am, and am not, allowed to say.
 
it doesn't come pick you up at your front door by checking your calendar as promised,
Here's an exact quote from the blog post:
Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, charging itself along the way. It will sync with your calendar to know exactly when to arrive.

He didn't say a time frame nor if current models would be capable of such a thing. However we do have a timeframe now as Elon has mentioned he hopes to have a demo by the end of 2017. As far as I can tell the end of 2017 hasn't happened yet, but I'll keep checking the calendar.
 
Here's an exact quote from the blog post:


He didn't say a time frame nor if current models would be capable of such a thing. However we do have a timeframe now as Elon has mentioned he hopes to have a demo by the end of 2017. As far as I can tell the end of 2017 hasn't happened yet, but I'll keep checking the calendar.
That's actually not one I was quoting. But that's another outright lie if you want to add to the stack. At least that one was so obviously a lie that it's unlikely anyone spent money on it.
 
So having to touch the steering wheel means that he LIED

Not even close. Today I drove 70 miles round trip, as I have done every working day this year, with my Tesla driving on the highway without any 'steering' input from me on the highway. I did not have to touch the steering wheel even once to keep it in the lane. I did have to touch the wheel a few times to let the car know I am alive, but not do the driving itself.

This is exactly what Musk meant as driving hands free on ramp to off ramp.

You chose to nitpick, exaggerate, twist his words - that is a reflection of your sad state of mind of missing the forest for the trees. Please see a psychologist.
 
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Not even close. Today I drove 70 miles round trip, as I have done every working day this year, with my Tesla driving on the highway without any 'steering' input from me on the highway. I did not have to touch the steering wheel even once to keep it in the lane. I did have to touch the wheel a few times to let the car know I am alive, but not do the driving itself.

This is exactly what Musk meant as driving hands free on ramp to off ramp.

You chose to nitpick, exaggerate, twist his words - that is a reflection of your sad state of mind of missing the forest for the trees. Please see a psychologist.
I gave you his exact wording which stated without touching any controls (which I would expect would include the steering wheel). If you decide to interpret that as holding the steering wheel at all times, I'm not sure how that's a reflection on my state of mind vs yours.

I agree with ohmman though, this was never supposed to be a thread about all the lies Tesla has told, we have many threads to discuss those. This is supposed to be about Lucid.

I say that if Lucid keeps the majority of their promises, they'll have no trouble attracting buyers who are disenfranchised with Tesla's constant lies.
 
I gave you his exact wording which stated without touching any controls (which I would expect would include the steering wheel). If you decide to interpret that as holding the steering wheel at all times, I'm not sure how that's a reflection on my state of mind vs yours.
In other news I can ride a bike with no hands but it doesn't mean I should 100% of the time. Technically the car can perform without touching any controls once engaged and where appropriate. However, at the end of the day it is an advanced driver assistance system (ADAS). As such, drivers must be reminded of their obligation to pay attention to the road. Forcing the user to touch the steering wheel is often an adequate method of making sure the driver is still alert. There are videos demonstrating that even resting your hands on the wheel is many times enough to be detected. This is a much better solution than having users hit a button on the touchscreen every 30 seconds confirming they are alert. If the car had hardware for eye tracking I'd personally consider that good enough too, but it doesn't so that's a moot point.
The autopilot ADAS and the requirement that you touch the wheel every so often are for your safety. Just like wearing a seatbelt. Tesla went heavy handed on the wheel requirement because of public outcry and criticism resulting from individuals not using autopilot as instructed.

I'm sure Lucid will also have seatbelts in their vehicles along with other features to keep you safe.

A final word though. Elon Musk is a human being. He says many forward looking statements. He says stuff that Tesla is working on, he says stuff he'd like Tesla to work on, he'll even publicly state his hopes and dreams for the future. These are not promises by Tesla as a company to you. As a human being he can make mistakes, he'll sometimes fumble a fact when speaking publically etc. it's not intentionally and it certainly isn't lying. Two instances off the top of my head are that he said publically 20700 cells when it was really 21700 (they were investigating many cell sizes at the time and this was an easy slip) and he said Nvidia Titan X when he really meant Nvidia Drive PX2 (both the 2016 Titan X and Drive PX2 use a Pascal architecture and a TitanX is probably used for any desktop based proof of concept demos.)