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Lesson Learned: Keep your Brake Rotors Conditioned!
- Thread starter Doug_G
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- Performance Roadster
Jeez go easy on the guy! It's his first post. I got his point from his first sentence - he just wanted to clarify some things. Maybe it was already clear to most of us but it didn't hurt to repeat things in different words. He wasn't criticizing anybody. He had good advice about the E-brake and the only serious thing he got wrong was the weight of the S-2000.
Doug did you actually weigh your Roadster? I weighed my 2.5 at the local grain store and it was 2780 lb. Scale was certified accurate by the state division of weights and measure. Were you in yours?
Doug did you actually weigh your Roadster? I weighed my 2.5 at the local grain store and it was 2780 lb. Scale was certified accurate by the state division of weights and measure. Were you in yours?
wiztecy
Active Member
I also agree with Henry, the person made some valid points and re-enforced what the thread was pointing at. Also the e-brake warping is a serious thing... I have to keep in mind about that... I'm starting to feel a slight imperfection and throbbing coming from my brake pedal.... I know its the rear rotors again... I do use the brakes hard coming into tight corners for sure. However when I do park I don't yank on the e-brake... I also feel I've given my rotors enough time to cool so I really think my Roadster is working way too hard braking on the rear... I do feel there's more weight favored back there and that's why they're warping although some may disagree.
I do have to say my CarboTech AX6's have saved my ass more than once... let me reword that... saved my Roadster's nose in more than one occasion. I am very amazed how hard I am on these things and they bite with confidence every time.
I do have to say my CarboTech AX6's have saved my ass more than once... let me reword that... saved my Roadster's nose in more than one occasion. I am very amazed how hard I am on these things and they bite with confidence every time.
wiztecy
Active Member
I can surely edit it if there's children in the audience 
Glad you got a laugh from it, anytime you're Roadster is down a laugh definitely helps as a quick pick me up!
Glad you got a laugh from it, anytime you're Roadster is down a laugh definitely helps as a quick pick me up!
His second sentence was, "There are a lot of misconceptions and false statements." That's a pretty clear statement. Then he didn't back up that statement with much in the way of relevant facts. In fact much of what he brought up wasn't even discussed in this particular thread, and didn't in any way alter the advice I gave in the OP. I can't see much in the way of misconceptions or false statements in this thread.
I was quoting the manufacturer's specifications.
My point was that the S2000 and the Roadster are indeed approximately the same weight.
Vger
Active Member
Absolutely! I just got the AX6's put on (one of my stock pads was missing a chunk even bigger than yours, Doug_G!) and it TOTALLY changes the feel of the car. Finally I feel secure that I can panic stop if I need to.
I recommend this STRONGLY to all Roadster owners. It could save more than your butt one day!
Thanks for the back up hcsharp and wiztecy.
I had no intention of offending anyone. If I did, I apologize.
Bonnie, I did state my corrections.
Doug_G, I'm agreeing with you. The rotors needed a good scrubbing in order to improve brake performance.
Driver_EV mentioned "The particular benefit I see is from very high temps. The pads and rotors will cook/burn off any oil residue that collects from the leaky ICE cars on the road. Leaving them very clean to provide the maximum braking response you describe."--I don't agree. Heating is not the solution and oil is not the problem.
I was trying to bring some clarity. People were throwing around terms incorrectly. For instance, some people may have misinterpreted your statements about threshold braking, ABS, and maximum braking force. The fact that ABS is activated, does not necessarily mean that the pads and rotors are at maximum force. What has happened is the tires have reached the point of slippage (as you and others have said).
Frequency dip wrote "The fastest way to stop is to brake as hard as you can without activating ABS. ABS will lengthen the distance it takes to stop. ABS is designed to maintain steering control of the car not to make it stop faster." I disagree. If ABS activates on loose gravel, snow or ice it helps control the vehicle, not stop faster. But as Doug_G stated on dry pavement, ABS is close to threshold and will help you stop faster.
Doug_G you were the one who wrote about warped rotors "Do NOT turn on the parking brake after bedding in. That could warp your rotors. In fact it's best if you could avoid using the brakes altogether until they've cooled off." I agree with you, but it's pad deposition as others have also stated, not actual warping.
The door sticker on my S2000 states 3385 pounds. Tesla website says 2723 pounds. So I stand corrected, the Stook is only 662 pounds heavier.
I had no intention of offending anyone. If I did, I apologize.
Bonnie, I did state my corrections.
Doug_G, I'm agreeing with you. The rotors needed a good scrubbing in order to improve brake performance.
Driver_EV mentioned "The particular benefit I see is from very high temps. The pads and rotors will cook/burn off any oil residue that collects from the leaky ICE cars on the road. Leaving them very clean to provide the maximum braking response you describe."--I don't agree. Heating is not the solution and oil is not the problem.
I was trying to bring some clarity. People were throwing around terms incorrectly. For instance, some people may have misinterpreted your statements about threshold braking, ABS, and maximum braking force. The fact that ABS is activated, does not necessarily mean that the pads and rotors are at maximum force. What has happened is the tires have reached the point of slippage (as you and others have said).
Frequency dip wrote "The fastest way to stop is to brake as hard as you can without activating ABS. ABS will lengthen the distance it takes to stop. ABS is designed to maintain steering control of the car not to make it stop faster." I disagree. If ABS activates on loose gravel, snow or ice it helps control the vehicle, not stop faster. But as Doug_G stated on dry pavement, ABS is close to threshold and will help you stop faster.
Doug_G you were the one who wrote about warped rotors "Do NOT turn on the parking brake after bedding in. That could warp your rotors. In fact it's best if you could avoid using the brakes altogether until they've cooled off." I agree with you, but it's pad deposition as others have also stated, not actual warping.
The door sticker on my S2000 states 3385 pounds. Tesla website says 2723 pounds. So I stand corrected, the Stook is only 662 pounds heavier.
You are correct, "warped rotors" is usually caused by lumpy deposition of pad material. Sorry if I used the colloquial terminology they use at the track.
My S2K is in the shop (it's throwing all kinds of weird codes), so I can't check the door sticker at the moment. However everything I can find online has a much lower number. For example Curb Weight rating - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums
Dumb question - are you sure you're not reading the maximum loaded capacity? Often the stickers show both maximum loaded capacity and gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).
Weird. My Stook has been misfiring too. I replaced the coils and plugs without success. Apparently the valves are a common problem. The mechanic adjusted the valves and that helped for a while. Got the CEL light again after an obvious misfire. Haven't had time to take it back.
I was working on fixing it up a little. It was definitely showing its age. I had the soft top replaced last summer. I need to get some PDR done. I put new license plates on that says Stook. Replaced a bunch of bulbs with LED's. Replaced the "S" from the front fender that mysteriously disappeared. I vinyl wrapped new side strakes with faux carbon fiber. Got a new carbon fiber lip to match that I still need to put on. Replaced the horn with a really loud one! I bought a bucket of those plastic push rivets to replace all the missing ones from the wheel well liners and belly pan. I cleaned and oiled the air filter. It has ~120k miles, but my wife wants to keep it.
I was working on fixing it up a little. It was definitely showing its age. I had the soft top replaced last summer. I need to get some PDR done. I put new license plates on that says Stook. Replaced a bunch of bulbs with LED's. Replaced the "S" from the front fender that mysteriously disappeared. I vinyl wrapped new side strakes with faux carbon fiber. Got a new carbon fiber lip to match that I still need to put on. Replaced the horn with a really loud one! I bought a bucket of those plastic push rivets to replace all the missing ones from the wheel well liners and belly pan. I cleaned and oiled the air filter. It has ~120k miles, but my wife wants to keep it.
Thread hijack! :biggrin: If you want to continue this chat I can separate the S2K stuff out into the Off Topic section. (Usually three off-topic posts results in a split; us moderators have to live by the rules, too!)
The sole purpose of my S2K is to take to the track. Our local track doesn't have charging, and I'm a little reluctant to routinely track the Roadster anyway (I do take it to autocross though). I'm more willing to risk an old S2K than the Roadster, and the Roadster has the thermal power limit issue. That said, I've had the Roadster out to Shannonville Motorsports a few times (and the Model S once), but although it has charging stations it's far enough away to require a hotel stay, and the local track is much nicer.
My S2K is street legal just so I don't need a truck and trailer. I'm not terribly concerned about the cosmetics, even though mine is almost pristine (never winter driven). It's weird that it's being so unreliable; they have the reputation of being pretty bulletproof. That said, there are a few known weak areas and my car has pretty much hit all of them in the last month. The differential broke a couple of weeks ago. It's throwing misfire codes and random other codes (e.g. O2 sensor fail - but there's nothing wrong with them) almost every time I drive it. I'm getting rotten egg smells and the power is off a bit. We're about to do the coils and injectors. Will look into valves. I'm actually starting to wonder about the ECU, though my mechanic doesn't think so. I tell ya, ICE cars...
The sole purpose of my S2K is to take to the track. Our local track doesn't have charging, and I'm a little reluctant to routinely track the Roadster anyway (I do take it to autocross though). I'm more willing to risk an old S2K than the Roadster, and the Roadster has the thermal power limit issue. That said, I've had the Roadster out to Shannonville Motorsports a few times (and the Model S once), but although it has charging stations it's far enough away to require a hotel stay, and the local track is much nicer.
My S2K is street legal just so I don't need a truck and trailer. I'm not terribly concerned about the cosmetics, even though mine is almost pristine (never winter driven). It's weird that it's being so unreliable; they have the reputation of being pretty bulletproof. That said, there are a few known weak areas and my car has pretty much hit all of them in the last month. The differential broke a couple of weeks ago. It's throwing misfire codes and random other codes (e.g. O2 sensor fail - but there's nothing wrong with them) almost every time I drive it. I'm getting rotten egg smells and the power is off a bit. We're about to do the coils and injectors. Will look into valves. I'm actually starting to wonder about the ECU, though my mechanic doesn't think so. I tell ya, ICE cars...
strider
Active Member
And I'll be I guess the lone standard-bearer for the Carbotech 1521's. They work perfectly well for a daily driver (fantastic bite even on the first application) with zero squeal and effectively no dust. So I recommend the 1521 compound for daily driving.
True! Thanks for the heads up on the pads. There, now we're back on roadster! Let me know what they find on your other car. Oops, off topic.
jbadger
TR#506, MXP, ~3#1206~
I was thinking of replacing my brake pads to the carbotech 1521's but after following Doug's advice, I think I'll hold off for awhile now as my stocks are night and day better after a few hard stops to get the rust off.
I've still got a light layer in the back, but fronts look beautiful. Thanks Doug!
I've still got a light layer in the back, but fronts look beautiful. Thanks Doug!
Not a problem! Cleaning them off does make a day-and-night difference. I actually consider them unsafe when they're rust colored. The only thing is, you have to keep an eye on them. I used to go out for a brake scrub twice a month.
I will say that the Carbotech AX6 are night-and-day compared to clean stock brakes. My Roadster now stops almost as well as my S2000. Also regular driving seems to be sufficient to keep the rotors clean, so I no longer need to do scrubbing sessions.
I will say that the Carbotech AX6 are night-and-day compared to clean stock brakes. My Roadster now stops almost as well as my S2000. Also regular driving seems to be sufficient to keep the rotors clean, so I no longer need to do scrubbing sessions.
I just had Carbotech 1521's installed yesterday. Mike Jr. suggested this compound as a good compromise between better performance while not being as dust generating as the AX6. If track use is planned or you don't care about cleaning dust from wheels weekly, AX6s are the tops.
Carbotech advised to give a few days of normal breaking for pads to settle in before using them very hard.
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