3 bottles of RBF 660 bleeding brakes and still have no brakes.

[Brandon86]

Ok,

So recently I swapped my calipers to a new set of Performance Calipers I had powdercoated. Pics below (I'm aware the car is filthy). New rotors and Stainless MPP brake lines as well. Install went smooth, put it in tow mode during the rear brake install as needed to release E-brake etc. no issues, until brake bleeding.

I have no air bubbles in the system that I can find and I bled in standard direction (RR,LR,FR,FL), as well as reverse (FL,FR,RL,RR) the second time after it didn't work. I did bleed outside valve and inside valved of fronts. I've used 3 500mL bottles of RBF 660 and still have no brakes. The pedal will need pumped 3-6 times before finally holding pressure and not going fully to the floor. Once it reaches that point, it will hold that pressure correctly, and is ROCK solid.

I went into the service mode on the car and I can't see any errors at all. I also reinstalled the software update just in case. I used a friend to pump the brakes while I did it. Master cylinder reservoir never ran dry. Only thing that didn't go perfectly, was I had to tell my friend to not press the pedal to the floor fast, and hard. To slow down a bit, because it's not necessary to slam the brakes. We're just moving fluid not trying to panic brake. Is there a chance that my master cylinder was damaged based on this? I did use the search function and some people had issues with ABS module it seems, I'm not sure if air got in it or not, but shouldn't have because I never let the MC run dry. Also, I have no way of activating the ABS while driving, because it's undrivable. I did leave the rear brake lines dripping for a bit while I was swapping lines, but that shouldn't be a problem because I've fully flushed after and have no air bubbles. I live 4 hours from the nearest service center so calling Tesla to assist is a non-option. Plus the service center that is closest has repeatably damaged more than they fixed over the last 3 service visits so they will be of no help I'm sure and will tell me to bring it in. They will undoubtedly only flush with their DOT 3 shitty brake fluid, which I would have to flush again, and then I'd be in the same boat again most likely.

Any help or guidance you guys can provide would be helpful. I've bled brakes on atleast 80 cars in my life because I used to work in an auto-garage growing up, and I've never had this issue. For all intents and purposes, Tesla brake systems aren't advanced in a way that would cause this to my knowledge. It's just hydraulics. Please educate me.

 

[dsgerbc]

I doubt that your booster or MC got damaged from bleeding. If you're certain there are no leaks anywhere, then maybe the ABS unit needs to be bled properly.
Tesla will gladly sell you a days' worth of access to the toolbox 3 software for like $160, and you'll need an access cable ($50-$120 on ebay, maybe Tesla sells those directly as well). Could be cheaper than dealing with the service center 4 hours away.

 

[Randy-12]

There is a tow mode on the Model 3?
Where is that?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

So you have to pump the pedal a few times to get it to feel how it should?
Then you leave it a while (how long? with or without driving the car? ) and you have to pump the pedal a few times again to get it to feel right again?
Is that how it's working or did you only get a soft pedal the first time after you finished bleeding?

 

[AAKEE]

With other brands with ABS the ABS-unit usually needs bleeding via a bleeding mode, the ABS motor runs for a short time.

 

[mcbanan]

Not relevant to your problem, sorry, but what mudflaps are those?

 

[Brandon86]

I doubt that your booster or MC got damaged from bleeding. If you're certain there are no leaks anywhere, then maybe the ABS unit needs to be bled properly.
Tesla will gladly sell you a days' worth of access to the toolbox 3 software for like $160, and you'll need an access cable ($50-$120 on ebay, maybe Tesla sells those directly as well). Could be cheaper than dealing with the service center 4 hours away.

Cable purchased, hopefully it gets here soon and I'll try that. Thank you for the information, I'll report back after. Also waiting on more brake fluid because it's not stocked locally anywhere. Went ahead and purchased a pressure bleeder as well with Tesla adapter to do the flush after activating the ABS inside service mode. Gotta make sure I get all that old fluid out after.

 

[Brandon86]

There is a tow mode on the Model 3?
Where is that?

Inside the service menu on the display. Same place you reset TPMS, adjust headlight leveling etc.

 

[Brandon86]

So you have to pump the pedal a few times to get it to feel how it should?
Then you leave it a while (how long? with or without driving the car? ) and you have to pump the pedal a few times again to get it to feel right again?
Is that how it's working or did you only get a soft pedal the first time after you finished bleeding?

After full flushing it never gets hard until it's pumped multiple times. Not while driving. Once the pedal is rock hard (5th pump or so and it will only depress like halfway down and hold like it should) as soon as I let go of the pedal and press it again, it's soft all the way to floor until pumping multiple times again. So basically no delay in it losing pressure at all. All this while not driving. Took it for an empty parking lot drive, outside my shop, all same characteristics.

Thoughts?

 

[Brandon86]

Not relevant to your problem, sorry, but what mudflaps are those?

RokBlokz. Pretty great mudflaps. They're like the rally armor ones material but don't stick out 3 inches and look gaudy. The install is simple, non-permanent with no drilling, and they don't fade in sun. Mine are probably 3+ years old and my car is only parked outside. There's a bunch of colors available but I got black with black logo so they don't stick out. I live in Key West and it's always flooding down here with bad roads and sand/gravel almost everywhere so they're necessary until I move to Cali later this year.

 

[Lindenwood]

After full flushing it never gets hard until it's pumped multiple times. Not while driving. Once the pedal is rock hard (5th pump or so and it will only depress like halfway down and hold like it should) as soon as I let go of the pedal and press it again, it's soft all the way to floor until pumping multiple times again. So basically no delay in it losing pressure at all. All this while not driving. Took it for an empty parking lot drive, outside my shop, all same characteristics.

Thoughts?

Could you try pumping up to the point the pedal is finally stiff, and then braking hard enough to activate the ABS? My pedal would go almost to the floor until I cycled the ABS a few times.

Obviously, execution is a bit riskier without consistent brakes, but that is what I’d try.

 

[Brandon86]

Could you try pumping up to the point the pedal is finally stiff, and then braking hard enough to activate the ABS? My pedal would go almost to the floor until I cycled the ABS a few times.

Obviously, execution is a bit riskier without consistent brakes, but that is what I’d try.

Was thinkin to try that this evening, but I think it may be tough considering power is cut when you hit the brakes, and hitting brakes 5 times will almost always bring you to a stop at any reasonable speed I'm willing to do on a highway with no brakes. and there's only one highway in the Keys. I may try at like 3-4 am but would rather not... This location makes that pretty sketchy.

 

[DownshiftDre]

Dont take this offensive but assuming you double checked the new stainless steel lines? Tight? Letting air in?

Its almost like something is still open somewhere or still air in lines (ABS?).

 

[AAKEE]

Dont take this offensive but assuming you double checked the new stainless steel lines? Tight? Letting air in?

Its almost like something is still open somewhere or still air in lines (ABS?).

If air is let inside the ABS-unit, it is needed to bleed via the bleed mode.
Regular classic bleeding only will not do it.

 

[dhrivnak]

After full flushing it never gets hard until it's pumped multiple times. Not while driving. Once the pedal is rock hard (5th pump or so and it will only depress like halfway down and hold like it should) as soon as I let go of the pedal and press it again, it's soft all the way to floor until pumping multiple times again. So basically no delay in it losing pressure at all. All this while not driving. Took it for an empty parking lot drive, outside my shop, all same characteristics.

Thoughts?

That REALY sounds like there is a pocket of air remaining.

 

[gearchruncher]

When I boiled some fluid, I had a soft pedal that persisted. Doing a bunch of ABS stops definitely made it way better.
Also, if bleeding is something you do a lot, a pressure bleeder makes all the difference instead of pumping the brakes. You can do it one person, you can re-use fluid as you bleed the air out, and it's the way Tesla says you are supposed to do it.

 

[Brandon86]

Dont take this offensive but assuming you double checked the new stainless steel lines? Tight? Letting air in?

Its almost like something is still open somewhere or still air in lines (ABS?).

Not offended, I’m always down to get educated when I make mistakes, we all eventually do! I’m here asking for help, anything you guys/gals can throw at me is much appreciated. I have checked multiple times all the lines and also wrapped all connections with tissue as a last resort to see if they would get wet at all. Nothing.

 

[Brandon86]

If air is let inside the ABS-unit, it is needed to bleed via the bleed mode.
Regular classic bleeding only will not do it.

Agreed, so I went ahead and purchased the cable online and I’ll do the Tesla toolbox subscription for a day and activate it, but only if the pressure bleeder I ordered doesn’t do the trick after it arrives on Monday.

 

[Brandon86]

That REALY sounds like there is a pocket of air remaining.

I completely agree, which is why I just kept bleeding them over and over, for like 2 hours. Went through $90 in brake fluid, and ran out, but had no air bubbles or air bubble sounds for the last 45 minutes I was going at it.

 

[gearchruncher]

Went through $90 in brake fluid, and ran out, but had no air bubbles or air bubble sounds for the last 45 minutes I was going at it.

FYI in the future when you open up a brake system, first flush it with $15 brake fluid, and re-use the fluid assuming you are evacuating it into a clean container. Once you have a solid pedal, put in what you want.