I hope Tesla Lowers the Supercharging Rates

[Daniel in SD]

It’ll take quite some time before you see much of a change at Qualcomm, IMO. Lots of cars there with grandfathered unlimited supercharging, with quite a few owners working at Qualcomm most likely, so they’re going to be at it for a wholeness yet.

Yep it was still full this morning though they did lower the price to $0.32/kWh. Tesla needs to figure out a way to weasel out of this free unlimited supercharging. Maybe make it free unlimited supercharging only at off-peak hours I know they're stuck with it but I think it was a horrible shortsighted mistake. It was clear when the first superchargers were built that people throw all reason out the window when something is "free". I think the only way out of it is bankruptcy.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla needs to figure out a way to weasel out of this free unlimited supercharging.

I think the cars with FUSC need to run into accidents and get totaled. Solves two problems at once, demand and elimination of FUSC.

 

[chronopc]

I agree. I looked into adding a charger at home, but we might be moving in about a year. Grandfathered unlimited supercharging is very valuable, since the SC on my way home is not busy at all.

Not sure if grandfathered unlimited supercharging stays with the car when I sell.

I think it should stay with the car. The used ones sold by Tesla seems to carry over the free SC.

 

[DrDabbles]

A balance sheet doesn't need to balance.

You would have made a fantastic executive at Enron, or working for Bernie Madoff. You really missed your calling.

It shows all assets and liabilities for a company.

So, like, I show an expense of $1bn for a factory, and then I show a $1bn valued factory. Almost like my ledger balances.

If I spend money on equipment that will be used for a long time, that money spent on equipment does not count as a loss

Who here said CAPEX was a loss? It's not. It's an expenditure in furtherance of the company's goals, and it is directly tied to the product being sold, so it's included in COGS as is the depreciation of the asset. This is super basic stuff here. Like, this is taught in high school economics. Is that still a thing? Maybe that's the problem.

I will put the value of the equipment as an asset on the balance sheet. Every year, I will earmark a portion of that asset as depreciation and that amount counts as an expense and reduces my earnings in the income statement.

Uh huuuh. And when you initially pay for the factory, that money is an expense. So there's a negative in the expenses for the factory, and an asset shows up for the company equal to the expense (roughly. There's obviously the labor cost to build it, etc. but that's getting into the weeds).

If your company spends money, and it isn't accounted for, that's embezzlement. I think you should spend some time on Investopedia looking up accounting terms.

 

[Matt L]

Everyone should stand up for what is right. Period.

Criticized by saying "crying" or whatever.

Yesterday was a perfect representation of the "sticks and stones" saying.

Doesn't matter when the results are favorable.
​

“What is right” to you? That’s not a universal view.

Next you’ll be complaining about congestion at SCs and their inability to keep up with demand.

 

[happyzod]

So, like, I show an expense of $1bn for a factory, and then I show a $1bn valued factory. Almost like my ledger balances.

An income statement shows income and expenses. A balance sheet shows assets and liabilities. Very basic stuff here. You were saying before that credits need to equal debits in a balance sheet. Not sure what you mean by credits and debits but I assume you mean assets and liabilities need to equal. That is wrong since Asset - Liability need to equal Shareholder Equity.

Who here said CAPEX was a loss? It's not. It's an expenditure in furtherance of the company's goals, and it is directly tied to the product being sold, so it's included in COGS as is the depreciation of the asset. This is super basic stuff here. Like, this is taught in high school economics. Is that still a thing? Maybe that's the problem.

The guy I quoted.
"Those loses were Capex going into the SC network, Model X development and then Model 3 development"

Uh huuuh. And when you initially pay for the factory, that money is an expense. So there's a negative in the expenses for the factory, and an asset shows up for the company equal to the expense (roughly. There's obviously the labor cost to build it, etc. but that's getting into the weeds).

If your company spends money, and it isn't accounted for, that's embezzlement. I think you should spend some time on Investopedia looking up accounting terms.

You seem to be conflating Cash flow, income, and balance sheet. Read up on it.

Edit; Upon further review, it seems like you are misunderstanding my wording on posts I made. I will attempt to clarify below.

A corporate balance sheet released in quarterly earnings has assets, liabilities, and shareholder equity. You don't see the process for getting the final numbers, which is the credits and debits you are referring to.

In quarterly earnings, an income statement will summarize the revenue and expenses which is what I was referring to for expenses. Expenses are line items in the income statement and not in the balance sheet.

Edit2: Again the whole point of the thread was to say that if Tesla wants to break even in their supercharging network, paying customers will need to cover depreciation + operating expenses + electricity costs. Thus paying customers will need to pay for electricity costs incurred by customers who have free unlimited supercharging.

 

[127.0.0.0]

I am in CA and have the P3D not the plus. But since I got it back in September I do have the free supercharging. And because CA rate even back in sept was like $0.23 that is the reason I did NOT ask for the 5k Refund. So I guess in the end it is worth keeping the free supercharging.

 

[TT97]

Uh huuuh. And when you initially pay for the factory, that money is an expense. So there's a negative in the expenses for the factory, and an asset shows up for the company equal to the expense (roughly. There's obviously the labor cost to build it, etc. but that's getting into the weeds).

If your company spends money, and it isn't accounted for, that's embezzlement. I think you should spend some time on Investopedia looking up accounting terms.

No, the cost of the factory is not an expense, the annual depreciation of the factory is an expense. There is a cash transaction so your cash equity is reduced (assuming not 100% financed) but your real estate equity increases. It does not affect i&e except for the depreciation.

And labor costs to build a building is not "weeds," it is a fairly large component of the cost to build a building.

 

[Eno Deb]

It’ll take quite some time before you see much of a change at Qualcomm, IMO. Lots of cars there with grandfathered unlimited supercharging, with quite a few owners working at Qualcomm most likely, so they’re going to be at it for a wholeness yet.

Have they added idle fees at this charger? I suspect many of the employees leave their cars plugged in for hours while at work, so a draconian idle fee should have some impact.

 

[Eno Deb]

I am in CA and have the P3D not the plus. But since I got it back in September I do have the free supercharging. And because CA rate even back in sept was like $0.23 that is the reason I did NOT ask for the 5k Refund. So I guess in the end it is worth keeping the free supercharging.

You should calculate your actual usage. $5000 buys you around 16,000 kWh at $0.31/kWh, which is about 64,000 miles in a Model 3. Do you foresee driving that much on Supercharger energy? Also consider that you could earn some investment return on the money.

 

[Limit X]

Hey great news everyone, they lowered it by 10 percent!

 

[127.0.0.0]

You should calculate your actual usage. $5000 buys you around 16,000 kWh at $0.31/kWh, which is about 64,000 miles in a Model 3. Do you foresee driving that much on Supercharger energy? Also consider that you could earn some investment return on the money.

I think 64,000 miles is not a lot when I am planning to really keep this vehicle for about 15 years for sure.. Also who knows how much more rates are going to go up from 0.31 kwh in the future.

 

[SigNC]

I am in CA and have the P3D not the plus. But since I got it back in September I do have the free supercharging. And because CA rate even back in sept was like $0.23 that is the reason I did NOT ask for the 5k Refund. So I guess in the end it is worth keeping the free supercharging.

You sure? I'd say if you don't have anyway to charge outside of supercharging sure, after a long time. However, personally i'd much rather find a way to charge while parked somewhere I want to be anyway. Now, if you really enjoy being at a supercharger, maybe those are one in the same for you.

 

[chronopc]

I think 64,000 miles is not a lot when I am planning to really keep this vehicle for about 15 years for sure.. Also who knows how much more rates are going to go up from 0.31 kwh in the future.

Depends on whether or not you can charge at home. I only use the SC during road trips so it would take a long while before I charge 64k miles worth at the SC.

 

[Eno Deb]

I think 64,000 miles is not a lot when I am planning to really keep this vehicle for about 15 years for sure.. Also who knows how much more rates are going to go up from 0.31 kwh in the future.

Well, over 15 years your $5000 would grow to around $8k-$10k using a conservative investment. It really depends on your usage pattern. If you supercharge a lot, it may work out, but if in doubt I'd take the money now. Who knows what will happen to supercharging in such a long time period ...

 

[SSonnentag]

I only supercharge when I have to, but with my driving patterns, free supercharging is saving me roughly $950/yr vs. having to pay for the power at the superchargers. (based upon $0.24/kWh)

If I could charge only at home, that same amount of power I'm getting from the superchargers would only cost me about $370. Actually, it wouldn't cost me anything as we have solar and overproduce, but I'll leave that out of the equation.

 

[SigNC]

Well, over 15 years your $5000 would grow to around $8k-$10k using a conservative investment. It really depends on your usage pattern. If you supercharge a lot, it may work out, but if in doubt I'd take the money now. Who knows what will happen to supercharging in such a long time period ...

Plus who knows what might happen to your car.

 

[TT97]

I am in CA and have the P3D not the plus. But since I got it back in September I do have the free supercharging. And because CA rate even back in sept was like $0.23 that is the reason I did NOT ask for the 5k Refund. So I guess in the end it is worth keeping the free supercharging.

It depends on your living situation. If you can't charge at home, go for it.

If you can charge at home, consider this.

With $5k, you can invest in a PV system (or supplement one you have). As there is a 30% federal credit, $5k after credit equals to $7,143 before credit. Solar installations are costing about $3/watt so with $7.1k, you can build a 2.38 kW system. I don't know where in Cali you are, but in L.A., I am producing roughly 1,500 kWh per year per PV kW so a 2.38 kW system can generate you 3,570 kWh per year, enough to charge your car for 12,000 miles per year (at 300 watts/mile) which you will be able to do far longer than your car lasts.

Also, charging at home takes 10 seconds out of my day each day - 5 seconds to plug in, 5 to unplug. Compare that with the effort of going to a supercharger and waiting there while charging.

 

[SageBrush]

Am I reading that right? 20 cents per minute?

Indeed, quite the deal ;-)
For an even more impressive deal, check out EA: $1 to plug in, $0.33 a minute for up to 50 kW. Want a 10 kWh charge to get home ? $4.3, or $0.43 cents a kWh.

If the LEAF forum is anything to go by, they are taking the prices in stride because they are used to having nothing.

 

[SageBrush]

Also, charging at home takes 10 seconds out of my day each day - 5 seconds to plug in, 5 to unplug. Compare that with the effort of going to a supercharger and waiting there while charging.

And add in the muffin and coffee.