Long distance weekly commute - Model S LR

[mshao]

Hi everyone,
I am new to the forum and would appreciate some advice regarding using a Model S LR + for long-distance weekly commuting.

I plan to be do a weekly commute from home in Chicago to work in Indianapolis on Mondays and back on Fridays. I've rented a studio in Indianapolis (for the weekdays) with Chargepoint EV charging. My wife and kids are well settled and we aren't ready for a move yet. The distance of the commute will be 205 miles to our house in the city or 250 miles to our lakehouse.

The 2020 Model S LR plus has a range of around 400 miles. And after doing some research, it seems real world range will be around 280 miles. So it seems that I could make it without stopping to charge. But there are plenty of superchargers along the route. Also it would seem that I can safely charge to 90% before the long commute without degrading the battery and still safely make the range. Thoughts?

I plan to install a level 2 charger at our Chicago city house and also at our lakehouse if feasible (older house with weird electrical - will need to have electrician check whether the current system can handle it). My wife has a BMW x5 plug-in hybrid, so we could both use the charger.

My main reasons for thinking of buy a used Tesla are:
1) save about $300 in gas per month (even with Costco gas)
2) avoid putting 25k miles per year on my Jaguar F-type and running it into the ground. I feel that an ICE will age faster with the miles, but an EV could potentially last 200-400k miles and would be better long-term.
3) autopilot or FSD mode in the Tesla to make the drive safer and easier
4) I plan to get the aero wheel caps for 5-10% more range

I would like to ask:
1) is my plan feasible and reasonable? Does it make sense?
I have a friend who recommended getting a cheaper Honda Civic or Toyota Prius instead. I don't like the idea, since they will still use gas and an ICE will deteriorate faster than an EV. Also maintenance like oil changes. Also don't get the benefit of autopilot or FSD.

2) I am considering buying a 2020 Model S LR (373 mile EPA range, 67k miles) from Tesla vs 2020 Model S LR plus (400 mile EP range, 55 miles) from an independent dealer. Similar price for both $37200. Buying from Tesla gets me 1 year/10k mile warranty and battery warranty to Dec 2027 / unlimited miles. Buying from indy dealer provides original battery warrantee of 8 years / 150k miles. Any recommendation one way or the other?

Any advice is much appreciated since I am new to the Tesla world. Planning to make purchase in the next day or so. Thank you everyone!

 

[ucmndd]

S is a great long distance commuter. I put almost 200,000 miles on one.

200 miles one way should be no problem except in the extreme cold or other bad weather.

 

[LoudMusic]

That seems like a great use case for a Model S LR.

Interstate speeds will certainly net less than the quoted 400 miles, but I can do your routes in my Model Y LR on a single charge without trouble.

You will definitely want to have good charging options at your destinations. A minimum of 7kw in order to get a full charge overnight.

Yes you can charge to more than 90%. It is not recommended to leave it sitting at high state of charge for long periods. The car has a scheduled departure feature so it will be charged and ready to go for you. I'm not sure if that's configurable for odd days. I usually leave mine set to 80 or 90 and if I need more I just use the app to slide it to 100% first thing in the morning and it continues charging while I get ready.

 

[AAKEE]

The distance of the commute will be 205 miles to our house in the city or 250 miles to our lakehouse.

Also it would seem that I can safely charge to 90% before the long commute without degrading the battery and still safely make the range. Thoughts?

You can charge to 100% any time you need 100%.
If you are sure that 90% is enough thats also OK.

The calendar aging is not much different at 100% than at 80% so if you anyway charge to 80% daily reducing time at 100% will not be important.

4) I plan to get the aero wheel caps for 5-10% more range

I would like to ask:
1) is my plan feasible and reasonable? Does it make sense?

Yes.

I have a friend who recommended getting a cheaper Honda Civic or Toyota Prius instead. I don't like the idea, since they will still use gas and an ICE will deteriorate faster than an EV. Also maintenance like oil changes. Also don't get the benefit of autopilot or FSD.

A Model S might cost more in the long term for Maintenance, but you save much money on the many trips.

 

[livesmith]

Good points in here already.

I'll just say that as far as the costs go if you're comparing a Prius... That gets pretty iffy... My cars are a bit older, but I have a 15' S85D and a 12' Prius plugin. Both with 300K+ miles.

It will depend on what you're comparing, but I assume you're going to pay more to get into the Model S to start with.

As far as maintenance... You'll spend less on tires for sure on the Prius. And otherwise... Pretty similar for air filters... And then I just used Mobil 1 oil and filter(about $35) every 20K miles. So... Not much...
The Tesla is good, but definitely not quite up to Toyota reliability, especially with the stupid moving handles, windows etc. So, I'd say more money for maintenance to Tesla(definitely has been in my case). And then there's always the chance you need a motor or battery in the Tesla... Which costs about as much(or more) than my entire Prius cost...

Fuel... Again, you need to run your own numbers. My S with 10cents/kwh and free supercharging is cheaper than my Prius. But with gas at around $3.70 at the moment, last I checked, if I had to pay for my supercharging I'd spend more on the Tesla than gas in my Prius...


Now, all that said, I still take my Tesla every time and my prius sits. The times where I debate pulling it out are when my S has a range of about 200 miles and I'm taking trips longer than that. The charging time adds hours to even an 8hr trip...

So unless you have free or super cheap charging, my gut questions you will save money. But If you can do the trip on one quick charge break or none at all and the charging is convenient for you then I certainly think you'd enjoy the Tesla more...

 

[livesmith]

Ok, just re-read your post again and I see you are talking about high mileages... My gut definitely disagrees with your reliability feelings... If you're worried about large component costs at hundreds of thousands of miles...

My Prius needed a head gasket at 200K+ miles, but I just upgraded to the next generation engine. Total cost was like $2500. I think that's about the most expensive thing you'd do to that car...

With the Tesla at hundreds of thousands of miles you are definitely in the ballpark of higher likelihood of needing a replacement battery. I think you're lucky to find one of those for less than $10K and more likely in the $10-20K+ range depending on the route you take...

And based on my experience the Prius may not need any suspension work by then, but you'll be changing out a lot of things on the Tesla... For a lot more money than the Prius would cost for the same work if it even needed it...

I'll say again, I'm not trying to deter you, I love my Tesla and prefer it, but It definitely eats up the money for maintenance way faster than the Prius ever did...

 

[PCMc]

Traveling from Chicago to Indy area should not be an issue with either of the two vehicles you reference, especially if you are going to have charing at both locations such that you can leave for your trip at roughly 90%. If necessary you can always hit the Fair Oaks Farms supercharger if needed. Are others, but Fair Oaks Farms is the quickest on/off I-65 which you can use.

Regarding overall cost, while I've driven a Model S for 8 years now and totally enjoy as a road trip car, if you're looking for pure cost savings, don't expect that the Tesla will be lower overall total cost for you vs. something like a good PHEV like a Prius. My ownership of Model S is not a cost driven choice, but having become converted to EV from the driving experience, plus the capabilities of what was EAP or now FSD for highway cruising, more I'd say a lifestyle choice, not fullfillment of basic transportation needs. My wife still drives her 2016 Honda Civic, which clearly from a total cost per mile has been a lower overall cost for us vs. my two Model S's.

Good luck on your decision and your semi-relocation to Indy area.

 

[mshao]

Thank you everyone, much appreciate your insights - @PCMc @livesmith @AAKEE @LoudMusic @ucmndd

From what I understand, there is no easy way to test battery health. So I test drove the Model S LR plus on city streets for 9 miles and range decreased from 299 to 288, so 11 miles. Does this seem reasonable?

At 299 miles when I started, it said 88% charge - so am I correct to assume that the full range is only 339 miles (=299 divided by 0.88) ? It seems that the car only has 83% battery/range capacity from the full 405 mile range when it was new. Am I correct to understand that this is what is expected with 3-5% annual battery degradation?

From some other forums, it seems real life range is about 280 miles on a new model S LR plus.... or 69% of EPA range. So does this mean that my real life range for this used model S will only be 339 * 0.69 = 234 miles?

Are these assumptions correct?

Thanks again in advance!

 

[Carsly2]

I would, and did, go for a used Model S from Tesla for the extended warranty peace of mind. As long as you wait to top off to 100% just before you depart it should have no noticeable impact on battery health and the S is a fantastic long-range grand tourer.

For the most efficient runs? I'd go for a newer model 3/Y. You give up a little range and space, but if you have Superchargers en route you may only need to make a 5-8 min pit stop mid-way in colder weather. For a long-range Model 3 or the new long-range RWD Model Y you may not need to stop at all.

Range is going to be dependent on speed traveled, tire pressures, traffic and ambient temperatures. Assuming you keep tire pressures as they should be then colder temps and higher speeds will be your enemies. Whichever way you go on models, you'll want at least a Raven (if S) which is 2019+ to get the advantage of the heat pump. If you can pre-heat your vehicle and battery while connected to power before each of the long legs it will measurably help your efficiency and range. Then it's just driving 65mph or lower. If you go 70-75mph+ for faster times, it will have a pretty big negative range impact.

 

[cptnslo]

There was a recent video on YouTube of a guy who did a circular test at 70 miles an hour in 80° weather and I think he got some more around 350 miles of range

 

[cptnslo]

Here it is

 

[dabbler]

Thank you everyone, much appreciate your insights - @PCMc @livesmith @AAKEE @LoudMusic @ucmndd

From what I understand, there is no easy way to test battery health. So I test drove the Model S LR plus on city streets for 9 miles and range decreased from 299 to 288, so 11 miles. Does this seem reasonable?

At 299 miles when I started, it said 88% charge - so am I correct to assume that the full range is only 339 miles (=299 divided by 0.88) ? It seems that the car only has 83% battery/range capacity from the full 405 mile range when it was new. Am I correct to understand that this is what is expected with 3-5% annual battery degradation?

From some other forums, it seems real life range is about 280 miles on a new model S LR plus.... or 69% of EPA range. So does this mean that my real life range for this used model S will only be 339 * 0.69 = 234 miles?

Are these assumptions correct?

Thanks again in advance!

Over the 300K plus miles that I have driven a 2013 and 2015 Model S, it is normal to only have 80% of the stated full battery charge. Climate, speed, weather, terrain and vehicle weight all are part of the remaining 20%. I drive long trips several times each month ( 300-500 miles) and have never had problems charging or range concerns. Always plan your trips and know what your vehicles limitations. Hint: always try to have at least 15% remaining battery charge when traveling from Supercharger to Supercharger. When you continue your trip after supercharging, you will notice the estimated % of battery charge at your next stop will increase during that leg of your trip. The BMS (battery management system) is very impressive IMO.

All of my Models S's were purchased used; 50k - 74K miles respectively. Tires, door handles (paddle gear), cabin filters, sway bar links and wiper blades have been my major expenses.

 

[AAKEE]

Thank you everyone, much appreciate your insights - @PCMc @livesmith @AAKEE @LoudMusic @ucmndd

From what I understand, there is no easy way to test battery health. So I test drove the Model S LR plus on city streets for 9 miles and range decreased from 299 to 288, so 11 miles. Does this seem reasonable?

No.

Displayed range at 100% is a fixed value of energy. It decreaese with age.
The full charge range show us the battery capacity.
The reduction of displayed range only tell how much energy you used, completely independant of the degrada in the battery.
In general you do not need to be worried about the health if the warranty is atill valid.

A full charge show us the max range, maybe the energy geaph still is there on model S before the last refresh?
Then it can ve used if you can nit get to see the range at 100%.

 

[suraj1194]

I did a 240 mile roundtrip 2x a week in my old 75D that had a 259mi range at the outset. Put in well over 100k miles on it then sold it last year for a 2023 LR . It was a great long range commuter. Even basic autopilot was plenty enough for me, with FUSC and 7c/kWh at home, I had very low fuel costs. It had under 11% range degradation over that time. The degradation pretty much stopped after 40K miles.

The 2020 Model S LR plus has a range of around 400 miles. And after doing some research, it seems real world range will be around 280 miles.

Is it ? We drove our LR to Tahoe several times this past winter. ~200mi and 7500ft elevation gain starting in the 50s and down to 20s-30s with snow up in the mountains. We did it without needing to charge until we got there. Been a long time since I drove ORD-IND but that's flat as a pancake. You shuold have no trouble getting one way even in winter. The LR is much better in cold weather than my 75D used to be.

 

[AAKEE]

I did a 240 mile roundtrip 2x a week in my old 75D that had a 259mi range at the outset. Put in well over 100k miles on it then sold it last year for a 2023 LR . It was a great long range commuter. Even basic autopilot was plenty enough for me, with FUSC and 7c/kWh at home, I had very low fuel costs. It had under 11% range degradation over that time. The degradation pretty much stopped after 40K miles.

Is it ? We drove our LR to Tahoe several times this past winter. ~200mi and 7500ft elevation gain starting in the 50s and down to 20s-30s with snow up in the mountains. We did it without needing to charge until we got there. Been a long time since I drove ORD-IND but that's flat as a pancake. You shuold have no trouble getting one way even in winter. The LR is much better in cold weather than my 75D used to be.

The (very) big difference in range in cold is the heat pump.
I drove 300km in -30C to -32C, after the car was parked outside for a few days in extrem cold (-40C / -40F), using only 70% of the battery!!!
Just supercharged and drove.

Before the Palladium refresh, without heat pump cold ”costs” more..

 

[PCMc]

Which MS LR did you test drive? If it's the 2020 your referenced in your original post, then you listed it has only a 373 mile range when new, which for the displayed 299 at 88% would put it at about 9% degradation. Maybe a little more than I'd expect for a car 4 yr old / 67k miles, but maybe not not by a mile.

For my 2023 MS LR, over the first 9k miles, I've averaged 286 Wh/mi. That's coming down as the car has been going through the break-in phase (yes, no ICE engine, but still a lot of rotating shafts to wear in). The first 6k miles or so I was running closer to 300 Wh/mi overall average but that's been trending down. I did a round trip from Columbus, IN (about 50 miles south of Indy) to Evanston/NW campus last weekend in March. For that 500 mile round trip I averaged around 260-265 Wh/mi. I did a couple weeks ago a 2,000 mile round trip to Sarasota, FL and that averaged 270 Wh/mi. Compared to the rated mile constant of my car of 250 Wh/mi, says used about 90% useable range, but both trips were in good weather. High winds, rain, winter cold and that will drop another good 10%.

Trying to estimate range from a short drive like you did is not very accurate. Some of this is just numerical rounding error as % SOC only displayed to single digit accuracy. You'll get a much better feel over a couple hundred mile drive. I've kept stats on my first MS for 80k miles and have now for 9k miles on my current one and I only judge over longer averages.

 

[mshao]

Which MS LR did you test drive? If it's the 2020 your referenced in your original post, then you listed it has only a 373 mile range when new, which for the displayed 299 at 88% would put it at about 9% degradation. Maybe a little more than I'd expect for a car 4 yr old / 67k miles, but maybe not not by a mile.

@PCMc I test drove a 2020 Model S LR plus which has stated EPA range 402 miles when new.