This is why I suggested an aftermarket screen that can be mounted on the dash behind the wheel. Those devices have many additional indicators, and may solve the issue for those people. No need to change the system that's working well for the majority.
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how can we encourage tesla to give better audible alert of AP status: full, distance keeping, or off
- Thread starter marcmerlin
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- fsd
Oh, it needs changing. It's a crappy system from a human factors standpoint. There's a reason that navigation systems use voice directions. They don't beep at us when a turn is coming because that's a stupid design. It's even more stupid when something important is happening. Sure, the driver should be alerted, so some tone is appropriate, but the driver also needs to be informed, and that's where the system fails. It should have a Bitching Betty that complains about possible collisions, failures to pay attention to the road, and anything else that we might need to be informed about. Emphasis on "inform".
Now I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but it already has this. FCW is loud and scary, red wheel is loud and scary, failure to pay attention is loud and scary.
I'm not being sarcastic at all. A Bitching Betty is not just a beeping system. It's a Voice Warning System that relies on the spoken word to communicate to the pilot/driver that there's something specific they need to be aware of, not just "something's wrong, look inside the vehicle to figure it out".
Ah, never heard of that before. All I recall from many many years ago is "your door is a jar" on some Cadillac kinda cars.
I guess I don't mind if it speaks it, but you're gonna need quite a few languages available, and it would annoy me if it repeated the voice statement beyond the initial warning.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
There is a setting for having the Rainbow road display when FSD is engaged.
This how I can check if FSD is engaged and to know if it get disengaged
(because I corrected a little jolt or cancelled a lane change...).
This how I can check if FSD is engaged and to know if it get disengaged
(because I corrected a little jolt or cancelled a lane change...).
I'm of mixed opinions on this one. To me the notification beeps are all distinct and obvious what's going on, I've never been confused about the state of autopilot, yet when my mom drives the car she frequently gets confused by it, no matter how many times I explain the beep system and where to look to check the current state. I've turned on the "always rainbows" setting to make it more clear for her, which helps somewhat, but not always. I definitely support the addition of a voice alert, as long as it can be enabled or disabled on a per-driver profile basis.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I have been confused about the state of AP a few times but it was always my fault. For example, once I quickly double tapped the stalk but was distracted and did not really check the screen. I heard a chime and assumed AP was on, only to notice the car drifting a bit in the lane because auto steer was not on. When I did check the screen, I saw AP was not on. But that was my fault for not carefully checking to make sure that AP was really turned on and working properly. So the blame is on me as the driver there. There have been other instances where the grey wheel icon would flutter on and off. The grey wheel would be on when I first looked but then disappear in the middle of the double tap. So only TACC would turn on or no AP at all. So I think if the driver does what they are supposed to, I don't think there is any issue. Having said, could the system be better at showing what mode the car is? Absolutely!
But, if people ignore the four existing indications, they will eventually ignore a fifth one, even if it is directly in front of them.
OxBrew
Active Member
I don't agree that that was your fault. The transition animation light show to AP (lanekeeping) active could be so dramatic that under no circumstances would you miss it.
It needs to be able to cut through 3-4 simultaneous distractions and register in your brain. If it can't do that, it's the fault of the design.
Sequence:
I start to double tap.
I get a text pop up on screen half way through.
Kids yell in back seat.
Wife says look out for that truck.
I "forgot" to check for the blue lines, or had normal human reaction to all the inputs around me? Tesla has to design for the worst case situation. They seem to be ready for nearly the best case situation.
In reality, it takes much less to forget to check. I've done it 4-5 times in 2 years. I catch it immediately as the car drifts or slows down.
It's on Tesla, not the driver. They equip the car with the feature, they have to make it as foolproof as possible. It's not there yet.
I'm just talking about the half second of transition to AP on, not after it's on. If the transition was dramatic and memorable, then the on indicators as they are would be fine.
Max Spaghetti
Member
This is the classic problem with "partial automation" and the human-machine interface that airline pilots are well-trained to cope with, but car drivers are not.
For example, after engaging an auto-thrust system (TACC), and/or an auto-pilot system, both pilots will always verbally confirm that the selection has indeed engaged correctly (and in what mode) by reading out the annunciation from the primary flight display. The annunciation is as similarly subtle as the Tesla, but the requirement to confirm it is a trained human discipline.
The autopilot disconnect is, however, much more pronounced in an airliner than it is in the Tesla: a siren tone that in some types needs to be cancelled by physically pressing a button. The trouble is that autopilot disconnects are much more common in a Tesla (particularly with a beta autopilot FSD system), so a loud siren with every intervention would be very unpopular. Furthermore, the Tesla autopilot requires hands on the wheel and constant monitoring with the expectation to intervene at all times. Airliners don't require this level of supervision except at critical phases of flight.
For example, after engaging an auto-thrust system (TACC), and/or an auto-pilot system, both pilots will always verbally confirm that the selection has indeed engaged correctly (and in what mode) by reading out the annunciation from the primary flight display. The annunciation is as similarly subtle as the Tesla, but the requirement to confirm it is a trained human discipline.
The autopilot disconnect is, however, much more pronounced in an airliner than it is in the Tesla: a siren tone that in some types needs to be cancelled by physically pressing a button. The trouble is that autopilot disconnects are much more common in a Tesla (particularly with a beta autopilot FSD system), so a loud siren with every intervention would be very unpopular. Furthermore, the Tesla autopilot requires hands on the wheel and constant monitoring with the expectation to intervene at all times. Airliners don't require this level of supervision except at critical phases of flight.
looks like you didn't read my post
1) more beeps is not more better, and after a whlie they just add to confusion. I advocated for optional audible messages. Yes, some will be annoyed by them, they can be off by default
2) blue steering wheel icon is too small and not in my field of view. It has not been helpful to me
that's mostly what I was asking for, but didn't make it clear enough that I was proposing an actual spoken voice message, not a beep that you have to remember what beep means what.
and yes, I know some users will hate actual voice messages, and I'm fine if they are off by default as long as they exist and I can turn them on
1) 2) yes but if you're paying attention outside of the car, you're not looking at those two.
3) the tones are not always clear and do not tell you all cases like autosteer turned off but distance keeping turned on still
4) steering wheel harder, yes and no, it can be a clue, but if you're holding the wheel going straight, you can't tell.
zoomer0056
Active Member
I already explained how the 4 indications are really only 1 you cannot say you didn't know about, the audio tones, but they do not adequately inform of all status changes, including autothrottle saying on when auto steering gets turned off. It's also too easy to engage auto throttle without engaging autosteer.
If you're going to say that everyone should exactly remember what each beep means and doesn't mean, you can also tell that to the pilots who crashed a plane by landing gear up because they thought the no gear down sound was a stall warning sound, which is expected on landing. There is a reason why airliners now have actual audio messages in plain engilsh.
All of this has already been resolved by aviation experts, data from many accidents, and unfortunately deaths too. There is no reason to rediscover all of this for cars the hard way.
In the ways that I can, which aren't a lot. The least tech support person I talked to said he agreed with everything I said, had heard it before, and that more people need to report it for Tesla to prioritize this.
zoomer0056
Active Member
That's how it's supposed to work. Very easy, if you've configured it that way, to engage TACC without engaging Autosteer. You could also configure it so that one click will engage both at the same time. So, you can configure thumb wheel Autopilot activation on a 2022 MSLR for one click or two clicks. Note: Autopilot is a group of features. Two of those features are TACC and Autosteer.
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zoomer0056
Active Member
Jeeze Louise... even Not A Tesla App (NATA) can get it right. I've corrected many times when people say I thought Autopilot was on, but only TACC was on. Autopilot is a set of features, of which two are TACC (not auto throttle?!) and Autosteer. Even NATA says Autopilot when they mean Autosteer. The terminology is shown correctly in their article graphic but they still get it wrong. Ha, and they say owners are confused! I think NATA is confused by using new owners on TMC as "sources familiar with".
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beatle
Active Member
I've been bitten by the system before, thinking AP was engaged when it was not. This usually happens after I've taken over control by using the wheel and not deactivating AP with the stalk. The fact that there are two ways out of AP which leaves the car in different states of autonomy is kind of confusing. Disabling AP by grabbing the wheel should also disable TACC, just as it does when you disable it with the stalk.
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