Harris Ranch superchargers powered by diesel generators??? Really?

[Webeevdrivers]

Hi folks. Saw this story pop up on my feed. Seems weird. We have been to Harris ranch a number of times and I don’t recall seeing a diesel generator powering the superchargers. Has anyone noticed this? Is it maybe for general back up power for the service station etc?

Here’s the link.

https://www.sfgate.com/centralcoast/article/tesla-interstate-5-supercharger-power-plant-18343119.php

 

[Watts_Up]

Tesla’s dirty little secret on California's I-5​

This is another clickbait article.

The only real content of this very long SF Gate article is the following:

While at Harris Ranch, SFGATE tried, unsuccessfully, to use the TezLab app,​

which tracks energy sources used by Tesla Superchargers.​

​

So SFGATE reached out to TezLab directly to see whether it’s able to track the amount of​

diesel, coal or other “nonrenewable” fuels that go into the mix at the Harris Ranch Supercharger.​

​

TezLab spokesperson Ben Perlman emailed SFGATE on Friday to clarify​

how Tesla’s energy is used at places like the Harris Ranch Supercharger. ​

​

“All electricity is created and used instantly by the mix of sources that are attached to the grid,” he wrote.​

​

“The energy being used at the Harris Ranch supercharger is the same energy being used anywhere within CalISO’s grid coverage.”​

​

​

Perlman wrote that by TezLab’s calculations, “nearly all Superchargers, homes, businesses, etc, in California​

are using those same sources of energy, unless they have their own dedicated solar or theoretical energy contracts,​

because of how grids work it’s not really feasible to look at one charger and say,​

​

‘Oh, I’d rather drive another 5 minutes to this one that uses a cleaner source of energy’ since they are very likely on the same grid.”​

​

The origin of the above clickbait article was about this 2015 Battery Swap Harris Ranch previous article:

The news was first broken by investigative journalist Edward Niedermeyer. ​

In May 2015, Niedermeyer drove from his Oregon home to Harris Ranch to see whether ​

“Musk’s latest bit of dream weaving could stand up to reality.” ​

Almost Friday Funny – Tesla is apparently recharging 'emissions free' electric cars with a diesel generator​

 

[Webeevdrivers]

This is another clickbait article.

The only real content of this very long SF Gate article is the following:

While at Harris Ranch, SFGATE tried, unsuccessfully, to use the TezLab app,​

which tracks energy sources used by Tesla Superchargers.​

​

So SFGATE reached out to TezLab directly to see whether it’s able to track the amount of​

diesel, coal or other “nonrenewable” fuels that go into the mix at the Harris Ranch Supercharger.​

​

TezLab spokesperson Ben Perlman emailed SFGATE on Friday to clarify​

how Tesla’s energy is used at places like the Harris Ranch Supercharger. ​

​

“All electricity is created and used instantly by the mix of sources that are attached to the grid,” he wrote.​

​

“The energy being used at the Harris Ranch supercharger is the same energy being used anywhere within CalISO’s grid coverage.”​

​

​

Perlman wrote that by TezLab’s calculations, “nearly all Superchargers, homes, businesses, etc, in California​

are using those same sources of energy, unless they have their own dedicated solar or theoretical energy contracts,​

because of how grids work it’s not really feasible to look at one charger and say,​

​

‘Oh, I’d rather drive another 5 minutes to this one that uses a cleaner source of energy’ since they are very likely on the same grid.”​

​

The origin of the above clickbait article was about this 2015 Battery Swap Harris Ranch previous article:

Almost Friday Funny – Tesla is apparently recharging 'emissions free' electric cars with a diesel generator​

View attachment 970811

Thanks watts up. Talk about regurgitating a story. Wow.

 

[RSpanner]

Where is the beef? I saw no proof at all anywhere in that story that would lead me to believe it is true.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Where is the beef? I saw no proof at all anywhere in that story that would lead me to believe it is true.

Yah. As noted above it’s a regurgitated story from 2015 involving the test battery swap site.

 

[Tam]

...diesel generator...

When people say diesel trains, it turns out the diesel is used to run a generator for the train's electric motors.

It doesn't sound intuitive because why not burn the diesel to run the train engines directly instead of going through the hoops of making electricity first to run the train's motors?

It turns out that going through the hoops to run an electric motor is still more efficient than directly burning fuel to run an engine.

One gallon of fuel to go through the hoops generates more miles on the road for EV while that same gallon to burn inside the engine would generate fewer miles for the road.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

When people say diesel trains, it turns out the diesel is used to run a generator for the train's electric motors.

It doesn't sound intuitive because why not burn the diesel to run the train engines directly instead of going through the hoops of making electricity first to run the train's motors?

It turns out that going through the hoops to run an electric motor is still more efficient than directly burning fuel to run an engine.

One gallon of fuel to go through the hoops generates more miles on the road for EV while that same gallon to burn inside the engine would generate fewer miles for the road.

Yah. But that’s not what happened here. It was just a temporary generator that was used for three months while testing the battery swap tech. It started in March of 2015 and was over by June 2015.

 

[Watts_Up]

Yah. But that’s not what happened here. It was just a temporary generator
that was used for three months while testing the battery swap tech.
It started in March of 2015 and was over by June 2015.

The problem is that this article includes extrats from another article.
in middle of the today article witten by Andrew Pridgen.

So when looking at the extracts out of context, it seems that
Tesla is currently running a Diesel plan to power the world larget Supercharger station.

Tesla, which in 2021 said all superchargers would be 100% powered by renewable energy by the end of that year, ​

was contacted by SFGATE to comment on the nature of the diesel plant’s current use at the Harris Ranch Supercharger. ​

The company, which does not have a PR department, did not respond by press time.​

​

...​

​

​

Bill and Sigrie Potter were traveling south on I-5 on Tuesday from their home in Pleasanton to enjoy the long weekend in San Diego. ​

They were charging their 2017 Model X, which had a full battery after the pair enjoyed a quick lunch inside Harris Ranch. ​

​

Bill Potter admitted that he wasn’t aware of the diesel plant at the Harris Ranch Supercharger ​

but said it didn’t surprise him. “There’s I think an app where you can see where your energy comes from,” he said. ​

​

“And I know the station a little farther down the road at Kettleman City is mostly solar. ​

Sometimes we go there, but we like the food, atmosphere at Harris better.” ​

​

​

Note: I just been contacted by a friend who sent me the link to the above article,
because his underestanding was that Tesla was running an hidden Diesel plan somewhere,
and he absolutely did not want to budge from this idea.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

The problem is that this article includes extrats from another article.
in middle of the today article witten by Andrew Pridgen.

So when looking at the extracts out of context, it seems that
Tesla is currently running a Diesel plan to power the world larget Supercharger station.

Tesla, which in 2021 said all superchargers would be 100% powered by renewable energy by the end of that year, ​

was contacted by SFGATE to comment on the nature of the diesel plant’s current use at the Harris Ranch Supercharger. ​

The company, which does not have a PR department, did not respond by press time.​

​

...​

​

​

Bill and Sigrie Potter were traveling south on I-5 on Tuesday from their home in Pleasanton to enjoy the long weekend in San Diego. ​

They were charging their 2017 Model X, which had a full battery after the pair enjoyed a quick lunch inside Harris Ranch. ​

​

Bill Potter admitted that he wasn’t aware of the diesel plant at the Harris Ranch Supercharger ​

but said it didn’t surprise him. “There’s I think an app where you can see where your energy comes from,” he said. ​

​

“And I know the station a little farther down the road at Kettleman City is mostly solar. ​

Sometimes we go there, but we like the food, atmosphere at Harris better.” ​

​

​

Note: I just been contacted by a friend who sent me the link to the above article,
because his underestanding was that Tesla was running an hidden Diesel plan somewhere,
and he absolutely did not want to budge from this idea.

There are a couple of diesel power plants on that property. Neither is anywhere near the size they would have to be to power superchargers. Having said that I haven’t been there in awhile so maybe they added something.

Has anyone seen a large diesel plant there? They have the little one by the entrance but that was there long before the superchargers were put in.

 

[Earl]

Tesla has used diesel trailers for temporary charging to handle surges (holidays) in several high-traffic sites such as Harris Ranch and Baker, CA while waiting for expansion to finish. These may cause a few emissions for the cars that use them for a once or twice in a lifetime holiday use at a high-traffic area. This is a small amount of the emissions if they enable such cars to be used during these rare occasions while they can avoid such emissions the vast majority of the time.
Sure, they make for colorful FUD sowing articles and are brought up by people who try to show they're smart by showing irrelevant exceptions to good things. To those with any real smarts, they just show lack of comprehension of the big picture or lack of integrity on the part of those amplifying and promulgating them.
I'm also sure that Harris Ranch has backup generators. Any good hotel will have them in the event of power outages.

 

[electrons4u]

When people say diesel trains, it turns out the diesel is used to run a generator for the train's electric motors.

Right, and that's why those are called diesel-electric locomotives, but not all diesel locomotives are diesel-electric. Some low-speed switching locomotives run purely on diesel with hydraulic transmissions (diesel-hydraulic). There are others, like the electro-diesel. See Diesel locomotive - Wikipedia .

It doesn't sound intuitive because why not burn the diesel to run the train engines directly instead of going through the hoops of making electricity first to run the train's motors?

It turns out that going through the hoops to run an electric motor is still more efficient than directly burning fuel to run an engine.

You're on the right track, but the wording went a bit off the rails here. Diesel fuel is always burned by the diesel engine, no matter if the diesel engine is connected to a hydraulic transmission or an electric generator that runs electric motors. From physics we know that anytime you convert energy from one form to another you have an energy loss. Electrical to mechanical, chemical to electrical, mechanical to thermal, whatever it is, it's never 100% efficient. So adding an electric motor subsystem to a diesel engine is not going to increase the efficiency of the engine, but by using electric motors at times it might let you use the engine less (or let you use a smaller engine). Then your overall energy efficiency might be better. That's the idea behind the Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid and how it gets very good gas mileage. Well, aerodynamics and low-rolling-resistance tires help, too.

However, it wasn't efficiency that gave rise to diesel-electric locomotives. It was because the diesel engines had become so powerful that ever larger clutches & transmissions had to be designed to handle the increased power levels. At some point, the clutches and transmissions would have been too big to fit into a standard locomotive frame, or they would have worn out too quickly if made small enough to fit. So a new system to transfer all that power from the engine to the wheels had to be designed, and that was the diesel-electric.

Of course, [batteries + electric motors] is more efficient than [diesel engine + electric generator + electric motors], so already in the US and Germany battery-electric locomotives are being put in service: Battery-powered trains are picking up speed

 

[Tam]

Is it maybe for general back up power for the service station etc?

The article has at least about 9 pictures of the Harris Ranch site and the author said:

"As I left Harris Ranch, I swung by the Shell station next to the small diesel plant to top off for the trip home."

But the author did not show any "small diesel plant" in those pictures.

It's doubtful there were actually any there when the author "swung by" because as @Watts_Up pointed out, it was the temporary diesel generator on wheels for the portable Supercharger (2 stalls) as shown by that 2015 picture on post#2 above.

 

[Haggy]

Hi folks. Saw this story pop up on my feed. Seems weird. We have been to Harris ranch a number of times and I don’t recall seeing a diesel generator powering the superchargers. Has anyone noticed this? Is it maybe for general back up power for the service station etc?

Here’s the link.

https://www.sfgate.com/centralcoast/article/tesla-interstate-5-supercharger-power-plant-18343119.php

Not only is it based on a temporary situation from 2015, when Tesla had only six Superchargers there, the story itself says "Niedermeyer told SFGATE in an email Friday that while he doesn’t have current information about the specifics of the Harris Ranch Supercharger...."

In other words, he has no idea of anything, and there's no indication that Tesla would spend a fortune on diesel fuel to generate electricity that they can get cheaper through a power company, given that they now have the infrastructure to support it. Anybody who gives it any thought can appreciate the absurdity of it. Obviously, if it were cheaper to generate power with diesel fuel than to pay retail rates, people would be doing so at home. And Tesla is paying commercial rates.

Also, even "It started in March of 2015 and was over by June 2015" is misleading because there were very few days in the period when the diesel generators were there when they would have been needed. It would have been only when there were more than six cars needing to charge at once, with more lined up. Even if each car took a half hour to charge, it would have been a five minute wait on average, so most of the time when there was a rare wait, there still wouldn't have been a need to use it. IIRC, it added two extra chargers on the days when it was actually used. It was really two parts of the day on holiday weekends, but anybody driving off hours on those days would have avoided the problem.

 

[wws]

There are major power transmission lines (Path 66 - Wikipedia) running the length of that part I-5. It would be silly for Tesla to run their own Diesel generators for anything but emergency/temporary power.

 

[RSpanner]

There are major power transmission lines (Path 66 - Wikipedia) running the length of that part I-5. It would be silly for Tesla to run their own Diesel generators for anything but emergency/temporary power.

I wanted to reply to the article in SFgate, but that was not an option,, either was a way to contact the author and question the validity of the article..Hate it when half truths are put out as the end all be all truth.

 

[electrons4u]

Like so many sites, SFgate produces an increasing number of clickbaity trash stories (hate to use this term, but genuine "fake news" in that it's really false, not just labelled "fake news" because someone doesn't like it.). Reminds me of what happened with Business Insider. Maybe people remember this from 2018?

 

[ucmndd]

It’s been a long time since I’ve read such a garbage article from any source. What a piece of unsubstantiated trash.

 

[Crew Dragon]

Those authors are really negligent! To generate enough power to run 100 V3 chargers, you would need at least 30MW of power. That would mean 10 generators that are each the size of a locomotive. The only picture of a generator that I've see related to these stories is one that you'd pull behind a pickup to power a job site.

 

[Earl]

Those authors are really negligent!

I agree with this ^^

However, not this vvvvv

The only picture of a generator that I've see related to these stories is one that you'd pull behind a pickup to power a job site.

since I've seen Tesla Supercharger generator trucks that are a full-size flatbed Semi trailer. Clearly not 40 MW but certainly enough to power several Superchargers.

 

[RichardL]

However, anyone who actually visited this location (as I have multiple times over the years and most recently in September) would know there are no diesel generators on site at all and certainly no Tesla flatbeds - there is no diesel power on any of the hundred or so SC at location.