israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I didn't even think about that, a 2013 TMS can charge at EVgo now, but wouldn't be able to on a NACS charger, that's an interesting difficulty for Tesla as it's their plug standard and their cars
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I'd like to point out that there are thousands of older Teslas that don't speak CCS and wouldn't be able to use those other DCFC networks even if they had NACS plugs. If Tesla were to add them to Nav they'd have to screen out older cars from displaying them.
They already have the code to support that. It has been in use for years in Europe, where older vehicles without the retrofit can't use V3 Superchargers or the third-party CCS chargers Tesla lists in the car. Neither of which show up in those vehicles.I'd like to point out that there are thousands of older Teslas that don't speak CCS and wouldn't be able to use those other DCFC networks even if they had NACS plugs. If Tesla were to add them to Nav they'd have to screen out older cars from displaying them.
- non-Tesla vehicles with a NACS charge port won't be able to use V2 Superchargers;
v2 vs v3 superchargers GIFIt is possible that all V2s will be upgraded, or retired, by 2025 when non-Teslas start shipping with NACS.
Agreed... I thought chademo was deader than dead, at least in the US.I can't believe chademo is even part of the conversation.
I can't believe chademo is even part of the conversation.
Sorry for bringing it up in this thread....Agreed... I thought chademo was deader than dead, at least in the US.
The current EVgo solution employs a CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter with an extra-long cable between the adapter's handle (which is buried in a square box that's bolted to the charger) and the plug. Tesla's current CCS1-to-NACS adapter doesn't use a cable, so there's no option to simply increase the cable length. Even if an electrically similar adapter was created that did use a cable, there's the problem of size/heat/cooling. The CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter is limited to 50kW (125A), whereas most new installations are 100-200 kW (250-500A; I'm referring to the charging speeds achievable on the Model 3 or Model Y; the stations may be marked "350 KW," but that typically assumes 800v architectures). To handle such higher amperages, the cables would have to be much thicker and/or incorporate liquid cooling. Thus, an adapter (at least, with a cable) would not be a viable solution.They'll have to remove the current CHAdeMO to Tesla Proprietary Connector stations and replace them with NACS before those new Ford and GM NACS cars come off the production lines as the CHAdeMO adapters don't talk CCS. Perhaps they can just replace the adapters with the new CCS adapters Tesla will be making and do the same trick with plugging the CCS plug into it when not in use. That might be a good idea for all the 3P Charge Point Networks
Like the old man in the "bring out your dead" skit in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail," CHAdeMO is not dead -- yet. The Nissan Leaf still ships with a CHAdeMO inlet, and of course cars last for many years, so there will be a sizable number of CHAdeMO-based vehicles on the road for years to come. Fortunately, none of these cars is really suitable for road trips, so their need for DC fast charging is limited....Agreed... I thought chademo was deader than dead, at least in the US.
Not true, they don't explicitly disallow adapters. It only says it must be "permanently attached", allowing for permanently attached adapters (which is what Magic Dock is):That said, I believe the current NEVI regulations rule out the possibility of using a Magic Dock-style NACS-to-CCS1 adapter if NEVI funding is desired, since they specify that the stalls must support CCS1 natively, not via an adapter. Going the other way might work and still qualify for NEVI funding, though.
Is it really "permanently attached" if someone can forcibly pull it off the end of the cable?Not true, they don't explicitly disallow adapters. It only says it must be "permanently attached", allowing for permanently attached adapters (which is what Magic Dock is):
Personally, I interpret "permanently attached" to disallow adapters, including Magic Dock. Although I would not bring a lawsuit over this issue, anybody who wanted to slow or stop deployment of such a system, and who had sufficient funds, surely would. Even if the courts ruled in favor of permitting a Magic Dock-type adapter, they'd likely take a couple of years to reach a decision, which might be enough of a victory for the plaintiff.Not true, they don't explicitly disallow adapters. It only says it must be "permanently attached", allowing for permanently attached adapters (which is what Magic Dock is):
(c) Connector type.
All charging connectors must meet applicable industry standards. Each DCFC charging port must be capable of charging any CCS-compliant vehicle and each DCFC charging port must have at least one permanently attached CCS Type 1 connector. In addition, permanently attached CHAdeMO (www.chademo.com) connectors can be provided using only FY2022 NEVI Funds. Each AC Level 2 charging port must have a permanently attached J1772 connector and must charge any J1772-compliant vehicle.
Like this, in case anybody scoffs at the idea:Is it really "permanently attached" if someone can forcibly pull it off the end of the cable?
True, but this particular thread of the discussion is about the possibility of some other (non-Tesla) fast charging provider implementing something similar. It's all very speculative, of course.Of course, it doesn't really matter. Even with the MagicDock Superchargers don't meet the NEVI requirements. (Minimum output of 150kW and having an on site contactless credit card reader, for just two that they don't meet.)
Probably not, but whatever hack someone found, I think can probably can be addressed. My assumption is that the adapter can't be removed from the stall, so obviously does not apply to that case.Is it really "permanently attached" if someone can forcibly pull it off the end of the cable?
It won't be a lawsuit, it'll just be up to the states to interpret in their NEVI application process. Of course, my assumption here is the adapter is actually permanently attached, not removable like someone figured out how to do (which hopefully Tesla can fix, they pretty much have to given people will eventually figure it out and want to take it with them). The guy in the video tried to do a AC charge which obviously doesn't work (CCS uses the DC pins so adapter is wired that way), but given Ford/GM will be offering an adapter to charge their CCS cars at superchargers, the magic dock adapter can totally work for that (and thus have value, not just a paperweight as the person put it).Personally, I interpret "permanently attached" to disallow adapters, including Magic Dock. Although I would not bring a lawsuit over this issue, anybody who wanted to slow or stop deployment of such a system, and who had sufficient funds, surely would. Even if the courts ruled in favor of permitting a Magic Dock-type adapter, they'd likely take a couple of years to reach a decision, which might be enough of a victory for the plaintiff.
Like this, in case anybody scoffs at the idea:
Of course, Tesla may have already fixed the problem.
Yes, I see other charge operators wanting to implement similar things, similar to how EVGo used a CHAdeMO adapter with an extended cable. It would cost a ton less than separate cables and is simply a more efficient use of money for something that would be functionally the same. Given the Feds have shown they are willing to change the rules to suit changing trends, I don't really see the Feds disallowing adapters especially if their current wording doesn't not explicitly disallow it.True, but this particular thread of the discussion is about the possibility of some other (non-Tesla) fast charging provider implementing something similar. It's all very speculative, of course.
Unless it can be forcibly removed from the stall as well, they would have the credit card on file for who released it. Just bill them for the adapter and the truck roll to replace it.which hopefully Tesla can fix, they pretty much have to given people will eventually figure it out and want to take it with them).
On CNBC they were talking about the government spending $7.5B on a charging network to nowhere. Sounds about right.
A corded adapter? Well, that would just be weird.Of course, an adapter actually can "fix" the port location if the adapter includes a long enough length of cable.