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The original Roadster HPC was built by Tesla and had a bunch of safety interlocks. There was a separate smoke detector that went on the ceiling with a thin signal wire that connected to the HPC. If the smoke detector smelled smoke, the relays in the HPC would open and charging would stop. There also was a tension detector on the cable... so if the cable got tugged charging would also stop. Off the top of my head I don't remember if there was a thermal interlock on the Roadster HPC, but there was talk of putting a temperature sensor in the UMC plug.
At the time of the introduction of the Roadster, EVs were in a fragile state. The then CEO said that one garage fire while charging could kill the electric car, again, perhaps permanently. So a lot of thought went into that sort of thing.
Practically though, the interlocks in the HPC would trip when they weren't supposed to and were often defeated just to get the HPC to work. Clipper Creek had been making these things for years without such interlocks and Tesla ended up just contracting them to make the Roadster HPCs.
The Roadster UMC sold by Tesla wasn't available till quite a while after the first Roadsters started shipping and that thermister in the plug idea may not have made it. I think the first RFMCs had it, though.
With so many EVs out there now, it's probably an idea worth revisiting.
I think that a simple thermistor in the plug of any EVSE (if it's a portable/plug-in unit at the unit's plug) and in the plug that plugs into the car would be more than sufficient to avoid the vast majority of these issues.
Thanks for the explanation. Given the number of sensors and smarts in the car... seems worth putting some in the charging system to dramatically reduce this risk. As of now, the 50A breaker is the only safety guard against any defect in the supply line+UMC
Now if we can just get the charging system sensors to trip that breaker...
That would probably be the safest of all. I think there are only a few breaker designs to consider when I shopped at Homedepot This is one aspect of EV adoption that I have not thought about. It would not be feasible for Tesla to inspect the electrical connections in every garage, and even if they could, Tesla would then accept liability for the accuracy of those inspections. It's a slippery slope. Tesla inspects my wiring and gives me the green light. My outlet catches on fire and I sue Tesla because they told me it would be safe. I just don't see Tesla inserting itself into that process other than providing installation guidelines for electricians - something they already do.
This is not unlike the recent spate of electrocution deaths in China due to counterfeit iPhone chargers. There is no way for Apple (ergo Tesla) to police what happens on the outside of the product's charge port. If the fire was caused by the HPWC or UMC, well that's a different story entirely. But according to Tesla's response to this month-old story, it seems like Tesla has investigated this thoroughly and concluded the issue was not with the charging hardware or the vehicle. Case closed in my book.
This is not unlike the recent spate of electrocution deaths in China due to counterfeit iPhone chargers. There is no way for Apple (ergo Tesla) to police what happens on the outside of the product's charge port. If the fire was caused by the HPWC or UMC, well that's a different story entirely. But according to Tesla's response to this month-old story, it seems like Tesla has investigated this thoroughly and concluded the issue was not with the charging hardware or the vehicle. Case closed in my book.
Yes we should pay attention to electrical wiring... but garage fires are not unique to electric vehicles. There are plenty of fire risks with ICE vehicles, including:
Honda recalls Fit for fire risk, says park it outside
Honda recalls Fit for fire risk, says park it outside
For sure, and the reason why building code usually requires some barrier between the garage and the rest of the house to slow fire. (Thicker dry wall, heavier and spring-loaded door into the house.)
i installed a smoke detector that is internet connected plus larm service in the garage. plus a big fire extinguisher close tomthe garage. long before this. just did feel right as something big charging in the garage it feels better. not the car I dont trust rather the electrical installation.
Split panels are generally not installed anymore because of the confusion associated with them; however, the 6-disconnect rule is still in place (NEC 230.71(A)), stating that power must be able to be cut off from a service with 6 or less switches. Canada requires a single master disconnect.
This is correct. For most people, the continuous load provided to the Tesla is constant and long-running; even ovens with 50A circuit breakers cycle their elements and that gives any wiring time to cool. As I mentioned above (pg 1), the small mistakes that are tolerable in 15 or 20 amp receptacle circuits can be significantly magnified to the point of fire with continuous-load, high-current circuits.
However, it is also safe to say that there are many thousands of electric vehicle owners out there with charging plants and they can be installed safely.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
I'm starting to think Tesla Motors will get blamed for everything as long as one of their cars was in the vicinity of the event
i installed a smoke detector that is internet connected plus larm service in the garage. plus a big fire extinguisher close tomthe garage. long before this. just did feel right as something big charging in the garage it feels better. not the car I dont trust rather the electrical installation.
Yes, beyond proper electrical installation, I'm thinking a smoke or heat detector is the easiest backup precaution we can deploy. There are some TMC threads on that topic.
Yeah, this is a case of the words fire and tesla together being "newsworthy".
But, this does point out something I have been saying all along, DIY charging installation is a bad idea. Even if you are skilled in electrical work (like I am). Insurance companies WILL track down the origin of the installation and if they determine it wasn't done by a licensed electrician, they WILL try to reject the claim. You might win but will have to show that the installation was up to code. Why take the chance?
But, this does point out something I have been saying all along, DIY charging installation is a bad idea. Even if you are skilled in electrical work (like I am). Insurance companies WILL track down the origin of the installation and if they determine it wasn't done by a licensed electrician, they WILL try to reject the claim. You might win but will have to show that the installation was up to code. Why take the chance?
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
I came very close to having a garage fire the first time I charged at 40 amps: A cautionary tale of a NEMA 14-50 installation
If I hadn't pulled the plug when I started to see smoke coming from the breaker box, things probably would have gotten ugly. But the car did absolutely nothing wrong- the problem was caused by the breakers or breaker box. Or by the electrician who had just installed the NEMA 14-50 outlet about 5 minutes earlier. Of course he blamed it on circuit breaker NEXT to the one he just installed. But I find that to be one hell of a coincidence.
If I hadn't pulled the plug when I started to see smoke coming from the breaker box, things probably would have gotten ugly. But the car did absolutely nothing wrong- the problem was caused by the breakers or breaker box. Or by the electrician who had just installed the NEMA 14-50 outlet about 5 minutes earlier. Of course he blamed it on circuit breaker NEXT to the one he just installed. But I find that to be one hell of a coincidence.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Do we know if the fire was in the socket or the UMC adapter plug? There have been a number of melted UMC connectors reported here and the statement from Tesla only says the car end of the cable was fine.
Mhotep
Member
If you read Tesla's response to this incident, they are very careful to say that nothing happened on the car side of things and that the fire started at the connection point with the wall outlet. Tesla is very selective in its language. For all we know, a bad UMC plug could have started this fire and Tesla is simply steering the conversation back towards the car. The fact that the fire department could not rule out the car's charging equipment tells me that it very well could have been the UMC. After all, we've had several owners share stories and photos of melted UMC plugs. Put that heat near a bunch of cardboard boxes and you have the conditions for a garage fire...
http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-tes...tem-may-started-garage-235501912--sector.html
fire department says something and tesla says something else...
who knows when they build the house... old houses don't have wiring to support ev charging but again I know nothing about electrical side...
always make sure you do your work from certified technician and don't go for short cuts...
fire department says something and tesla says something else...
who knows when they build the house... old houses don't have wiring to support ev charging but again I know nothing about electrical side...
always make sure you do your work from certified technician and don't go for short cuts...
I don't think Tesla is disputing what the fire department is saying. From the article:
Tesla just said it wasn't on the car side of the UMC.
tdelta1000
Active Member
Moderator note: Changed the thread title to be slightly less *inflammatory*.
I agree.
Exactly.
Moral of the story - don't store easily flammable stuff near your EVSE:
Exclusive: Tesla Model S charging system may have started garage fire - California fire dept - Yahoo News
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