NEMA 14-50 outlets, be careful if you went cheap when you purchased them.

[Wshowell]

A friend of mine installed two Nema 14-50’s in his garage to charge his Model S and Y. One day he got a message that one had Faulted out. When he went in to the garage there was a smell and smoke but luckily no fire. The system was all crusty and burnt up. It was a scary site. He had the outlets installed by an electrician but he used cheap outlets from the big box stores (under $15/each). The electrician suggested he rebuild with industrial outlets and hasn’t had any issues since. I have seen a number of posts where people explain how they saved money by not buying the expensive Hubbell or Bryant outlets. I would have done the same thinking they’re all the same. We have hardwired tesla wall connectors at our house but when I put in a Nema 14-50 at our cabin I went with the Hubbell porcelain outlet and hardware. It was over $125 before installation but I sleep better knowing they’re designed, engineered and built for continuous heavy loads. Here’s an article that might be of interest. If you have those cheap Leviton outlets, I think it’d be pretty easy to swap them out or better yet, hard wire In a dedicated system where possible. Here’s the article that got me thinking about all this. Industrial vs Residential 240V Outlets for Home EV Charging

 

[Cosmacelf]

Yes, which is also why I always recommend skipping the 14-50 route (which requires an expensive GFCI circuit breaker as well), and go straight to a direct wired Wall Connector, no matter what the amperage setting you can use.

Obviously UL and other testing agencies are not certifying receptacles very well these days.

 

[Rocky_H]

I have seen a number of posts where people explain how they saved money by not buying the expensive Hubbell or Bryant outlets.

It's not saving any money anymore because of:

requires an expensive GFCI circuit breaker as well

Electric code now requires a much more expensive breaker if you're using an outlet, so it's about even on cost to just go with a wall connector instead.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

Electric code now requires a much more expensive breaker if you're using an outlet, so it's about even on cost to just go with a wall connector instead.

I saw the discussions about GFCI for outdoor outlets (whether receptacle or hard-wired TWC), but is it now in the code to require GFCI for all indoor receptacles and/or outlets?

 

[Cosmacelf]

I saw the discussions about GFCI for outdoor outlets (whether receptacle or hard-wired TWC), but is it now in the code to require GFCI for all indoor receptacles and/or outlets?

It is code to install GFCI breakers for any high power receptacle whose function is to power an EVSE. The theory being that if you were to pull on that big honking tightly grabbed NEMA 14-50 plug, you might be an idiot and wrap your fingers around the the head and contact the blades as you are pulling it out. This applies to EVSEs only because, I dunno, they think random EV owners are more prone to this behavior than RV owners or people who own arc welders.

The new GFCI requirement is a hack because NEC plugs are badly designed in the first place, but whatever.

BTW, I believe all garage outlets are normally considered outdoor outlets as well.

There is no requirement for GFCI breakers for hard wired EVSEs, indoor or outdoor.

 

[Big Earl]

Title is misleading. Don't "be careful" if you used a cheap receptacle (Leviton). Replace it with a high-quality receptacle (Bryant, Hubbell or Cooper). Or better yet, hardwire a Wall Connector.

 

[beatle]

It's not saving any money anymore because of:

Electric code now requires a much more expensive breaker if you're using an outlet, so it's about even on cost to just go with a wall connector instead.

+1

Saves on wiring as well since you only need 2+ground for a HPWC, whereas a 14-50 technically needs 3+ground. Depending on the length of the run needed, that could be a lot of money.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

It is code to install GFCI breakers for any high power receptacle whose function is to power an EVSE. The theory being that if you were to pull on that big honking tightly grabbed NEMA 14-50 plug, you might be an idiot and wrap your fingers around the the head and contact the blades as you are pulling it out. This applies to EVSEs only because, I dunno, they think random EV owners are more prone to this behavior than RV owners or people who own arc welders.

The new GFCI requirement is a hack because NEC plugs are badly designed in the first place, but whatever.

BTW, I believe all garage outlets are normally considered outdoor outlets as well.

There is no requirement for GFCI breakers for hard wired EVSEs, indoor or outdoor.

My takeaway from the other thread I was reading (in the Model Y forums) was that outlets above grade in a garage counted as "indoors" and didn't have the GFCI reqt, but I'm uneducated with it comes to all this code stuff other than knowing my install was done before the 2017 code update, so I currently don't have any GFCI breakers installed.

Which makes me wonder, if I did remove a NEMA 14-50 receptacle to put in a TWC (limited to 40A steady/50A peak), would that count as "touching" the breaker and require a GFCI install, or would it maintain it's pre-code-update status?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Which makes me wonder, if I did remove a NEMA 14-50 receptacle to put in a TWC (limited to 40A steady/50A peak), would that count as "touching" the breaker and require a GFCI install, or would it maintain it's pre-code-update status?

??? Hard wired connections do not need GFCI breakers, so you're good. It would be a new install, just repurposing an old circuit.

 

[Eric33432]

Some people are saying you need GFCI for outdoor hard wired EVSE, some are saying no GFCI is needed. The following is pulled from the article I link to below. This is 2020 NEC code, not all states are on the 2020 code:

"This change has implications for a broad range of outdoor outlets in residential settings. This will mean that all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets rated 125- through 250-volts and single-phase, 150-volts to ground or less will be required by 210.8(A)(3) to be GFCI protected and any hardwired equipment connected to single-phase, 150-Volts to ground or less and 50 amps or less will be required by 210.8(F) to have GFCI protection. There are two exceptions to this for not readily accessible receptacles intended for snow-melting and de-icing equipment and outdoor lighting outlets."

GFCI Protection and the 2020 NEC

iaeimagazine.org

Does anyone know if there is an exception for hardwired EVSE that is installed outdoors? If there isn't, and you want to avoid a GFCI breaker on an outdoor installed Tesla Wall Connector, install it on a 60 amp circuit.

 

[terranx]

Note the wording “all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets”. An evse is not a receptacle outlet.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Regarding outlet quality, see Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide (post #60 of the thread) with this image:

The upper photos show an outlet with full size brass contacts, while the lower photos show an outlet with half size steel contacts. The latter has higher resistance and heat generation, both from the smaller size of the contacts and steel being less conductive. It also looks like the lower photo shows that the contacts can get misaligned more easily, increasing resistance and heat generation even more.

Most outlets appear to have full size brass contacts, but the very common Leviton 279-S00 has half size steel contacts. You can even see that if you look carefully on Leviton's page for that output: 279-S00

 

[recluce]

And while you're at it, make sure the breaker is good quality as well. My hard-wired wall-box managed to fry two breakers, on the Electrician's penny before they wisened up and installed a higher quality breaker. No issues since.

 

[Eric33432]

Note the wording “all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets”. An evse is not a receptacle outlet.

Yes, but continue reading:

"This change has implications for a broad range of outdoor outlets in residential settings. This will mean that all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets rated 125- through 250-volts and single-phase, 150-volts to ground or less will be required by 210.8(A)(3) to be GFCI protected . . . .

. . . . and any hardwired equipment connected to single-phase, 150-Volts to ground or less and 50 amps or less will be required by 210.8(F) to have GFCI protection. There are two exceptions to this for not readily accessible receptacles intended for snow-melting and de-icing equipment and outdoor lighting outlets."

It sure looks to me like a 50 amp or less EVSE installed outdoors needs to be on a circuit protected by a GFCI breaker, but does anyone know for sure if there is an exception elsewhere in the code to this requirement specified in 210.8(A)(3)?

 

[terranx]

Hmm, looks like you're right, though googling around, it does seem some locales have been not implementing that specific provision.

Sounds like going 60A would be for the best then.

 

[Rocky_H]

I saw the discussions about GFCI for outdoor outlets (whether receptacle or hard-wired TWC), but is it now in the code to require GFCI for all indoor receptacles and/or outlets?

Since the 2017 NEC version, indoor or outdoor is irrelevant. They set the rule in stone that any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging an electric car must use a GFCI breaker. So it's decided for you.

 

[terranx]

Since the 2017 NEC version, indoor or outdoor is irrelevant. They set the rule in stone that any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging an electric car must use a GFCI breaker. So it's decided for you.

Nothing really stops you from telling the electrician that you want the outlet for a welder or something though.

 

[hounds]

The place that I am renting has a 14-50 outlet installed but noticed the breaker is not GFCI. I have a rear wheel model 3 and have been charging at 32amps. The outlet 14-50 connector is probably home depot stuff as he does the property maimtaince. Is this safe or should I try to get the landlord to change this stuff out? Does charging at a lower amperage safer?
Thanks

 

[Eric33432]

The place that I am renting has a 14-50 outlet installed but noticed the breaker is not GFCI. I have a rear wheel model 3 and have been charging at 32amps. The outlet 14-50 connector is probably home depot stuff as he does the property maimtaince. Is this safe or should I try to get the landlord to change this stuff out? Does charging at a lower amperage safer?
Thanks

The GFCI requirement is new, with 2017 edition of the National Electric Code I think, and may not have been in effect when the receptacle was installed. We are now on the 2023 code cycle and where I live is still on the 2017 (last time I checked) so even if the receptacle was installed in 2017-2020 the 2017 may not have been in effect where you are at the time the receptacle was installed. I would not worry about that. Just be careful when plugging in and out that you do not touch the pins on the plug when they are not fully inserted, or if you want to be real careful you can turn the circuit breaker off when plugging in and out.

Regarding the outlet, when looking in where the contacts are located, do they appear to be silver coloured half size contacts? Is the name Levition on the outlet? If either of these are true, you do have the cheap outlet. But since it is a rental, I would just check the temperature of the plug from time to time after the car has been charging for an hour or two. It should feel warm, but not hot. If it gets too hot, the sensor in the plug will tell the Tesla Mobile Connector to shut down.

It depends on the landlord's personality how he will take your request to change the plug out. Many landlords do not like to be bothered, some don't mind.

Charging at a lower rate would probably be safer if the outlet is a Leviton that has the half size contacts, and I would avoid plugging in and out often as this will cause the contacts to weaken their grip on the plug's prongs. And when plugging in your cable, be sure that it offers some resistance. If it plugs in to easily then the contacts have already become weakened.

 

[brkaus]

The place that I am renting has a 14-50 outlet installed but noticed the breaker is not GFCI. I have a rear wheel model 3 and have been charging at 32amps. The outlet 14-50 connector is probably home depot stuff as he does the property maimtaince. Is this safe or should I try to get the landlord to change this stuff out? Does charging at a lower amperage safer?
Thanks

Lower amps will generate significantly less heat. Power dissipated in a resistor is a factor amps squared.