Your setup rubs with 19s and air suspension. Others are rubbing with 21s and coils. Maybe this issue is with 85s in general?
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Front Tires Rubbing on P85+ when reversing
- Thread starter Tricolore
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
mknox
Well-Known Member
I suspect the Luganos have a slightly different offset than the Tesla rims and that is the root cause. I get the rubbing with the Lugano 19" rims but not with the Tesla 19" rims. I think the 21" rims rubbing is a different, but related issue. I'm still puzzled why it's only when backing up and not going forward.
The Luganos come in many different offsets. But if you have the Tesla specific one (correct center bore and can use original lug nuts), it's ET32 instead of the stock ET40. But it's also half an inch wider.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I got mine from Tire Rack when they first came out. For the Tesla, but different size center cap and have to use Rial-specific lug nuts with an adapter.
i think it is due to the compliance in the rubber bushings of the lower control arms and the fore-aft translation of the knuckle required in turning--see the technical forum thread about the front suspension for pictures, etc.
SteveS0353
Member
Thanks! This could perhaps explain why the rubbing happens while reversing and not going forward. This happens on my P85+ too, backing out the garage and down a sloping driveway when turning the rear into the street, but only on near extreme lock. I've never experienced it going forward, even at extreme lock.
I had the car in for service and they checked this out. They fixed the problem. I have the winter 19" now but will have to check again in summer with the 21's.
Here is what they did:
Replaced Wheel Arch Liner, Upper Front Right due to rubbing.
Part Quantity
LOUVRE ASSY, RH, WHEEL LINER
(1020471-00-B) 1
RVT PUSH-PULL 8X18X20.0 (1006521-00-A) 3
Hope this helps others. Portland SC did a great job.
My P85+ went in for service and I had them replace the front tires while they had it. PS2s on stock 21" rims. I'm getting pretty severe rubbing while turning in reverse. I've since swapped my 19" Luganos with snows and am getting the same behavior. I've let tesla know, they are looking at my car on Monday.
I've had a similar issue with my Rial Luganos. I've had my car for a bit over a year at this point. When I purchased it last year, Tesla was sold out of winter tires, so I wound up buying the Rial Lugano from tire rack with 245/45R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-32 winter tires (the same exact size tire as the Tesla stock) All of last year, the car drove like a dream in the snow. I never had any issues at all and was satisfied with the handling and the ride quality. When i put them on this year, I get a loud scraping noise when I turn the wheel hard going in reverse. Apparently the tires are now scraping against the plastic on the inner fender!
It's driving me crazy since I never had the issue last year and I can't imagine what would have changed from last year to this.
Has anyone had resolution on this issue from a service center?
Will the SC help out even though they are aftermarket wheels?
mknox
Well-Known Member
So I just spoke to service and have a little more information on this. So apparently, when they did the alignment at my annual service they "corrected' the caster angle back into spec by moving it positive by 0.5 degrees. The manager said that little bit of a change shouldn't have made any difference, but apparently he did. Since the wheels are aftermarket, they won't do anything to accommodate, including not realigning back to what they were. I could take it to an aftermarket shop, but he said a change in alignment would affect the handling. In addition, he recommended against heating and reshaping the louvered fender liners for the sake of air flow. He also mentioned that even on the stock wheels, the snow tires sometimes rub when you're going into reverse with the wheel locked, and said it wasn't that big of a deal.
Any advice? Feels like Tesla isn't going to help me here so not positive of the solution.
Is just "dealing with" the rubbing going to cause any issues down the line?
Has anyone had better luck fixing the problem?
A before and after printout would have been nice. Adding positive caster would move the upper ball joint forward, but since there is no thrust control arm then the lower virtual pivot could move forward also. During backup in reverse the thrust moment would be pushing the front tire forward even more toward the front lip where you are rubbing.
Can you get a view into the pocket (area behind the yellow arrow) of the mounting for the upper control arm near the ride height sensor? i'm thinking that may be the location of the caster adjustment--there doesn't seem to be an eccentric adjuster at the ball joint (red arrow).
This is a view (Thanks to Edmunds) when the suspension is topped out. As the car is lowered that black steel upper control link travels up into that pocket--we need a picture of what's in the pocket holding the end...
Can you get a view into the pocket (area behind the yellow arrow) of the mounting for the upper control arm near the ride height sensor? i'm thinking that may be the location of the caster adjustment--there doesn't seem to be an eccentric adjuster at the ball joint (red arrow).
This is a view (Thanks to Edmunds) when the suspension is topped out. As the car is lowered that black steel upper control link travels up into that pocket--we need a picture of what's in the pocket holding the end...
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Thanks for posting this and the helpful info - I have the exact same thing happening with mine. I can hear a bit of rubbing when backing out of my parking space first thing in the morning, with the wheel turned 80%+. I thought this might have come up when switching from from 21" to 19" snow tires in the last month or so, but apparently not. I did not have any rubbing early on (took delivery back in late spring/early summer).
I also have the coil suspension.
I also have the coil suspension.
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William13
Active Member
I have Tesla 19 rims with Hakka R2 tires. The winter tires rubbed 2 years ago and this year when new tires placed while turning in reverse. I never knew what the issue was. I just turn hard or go fast in reverse. No apparent damage to the tires.
kb
I don't know much about suspension components, but here are some pics I snapped last night of the front lower control (?) arms. The aft lower arm adjusts the camber and seems to be perpendicular to the center line of the car. I believe the forward arm adjusts the caster and angles approximately 30-40 degrees towards the front. Both have eccentric adjusting bolts on the inboard ends.
I don't know much about suspension components, but here are some pics I snapped last night of the front lower control (?) arms. The aft lower arm adjusts the camber and seems to be perpendicular to the center line of the car. I believe the forward arm adjusts the caster and angles approximately 30-40 degrees towards the front. Both have eccentric adjusting bolts on the inboard ends.
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Hey Linkster thanks for crawling around to get those views of the right hand lower attachment points.
i can see an offset washer in a slot that would allow an eccentric adjustment in the position of the arms, and i would guess that the washer is welded to the nut.
So it looks like the aft lower control arm has the lateral adjustment for camber, whereas an adjustment of the forward lower arm will affect many aspects of the alignment: caster, wheelbase, camber and toe. Of course final toe-in adjustment is in the steering tie-rods.
I wonder about the function of the aluminum plate welded to the aft mounting flange? That flange is bolted to the chassis and you can see how one of the flange holes is slotted with a wide opening to slide around the bolt--probably a feature to allow quick assembly on the build line, but it makes for a weaker mounting joint with the wide slot. You can even see that there is very little of the bolt head in contact with the mounting flange.
i can see an offset washer in a slot that would allow an eccentric adjustment in the position of the arms, and i would guess that the washer is welded to the nut.
So it looks like the aft lower control arm has the lateral adjustment for camber, whereas an adjustment of the forward lower arm will affect many aspects of the alignment: caster, wheelbase, camber and toe. Of course final toe-in adjustment is in the steering tie-rods.
I wonder about the function of the aluminum plate welded to the aft mounting flange? That flange is bolted to the chassis and you can see how one of the flange holes is slotted with a wide opening to slide around the bolt--probably a feature to allow quick assembly on the build line, but it makes for a weaker mounting joint with the wide slot. You can even see that there is very little of the bolt head in contact with the mounting flange.
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