Electrify Everything

[mspohr]

The resiliency argument isn't a good one, as anything serious* that takes down the electrical grid is likely to take down the NG distribution system at the same time. You get resiliency by pairing a generator with on site fuel storage. If you have a NG-connected generator and expect it to provide resiliency you're going to be disappointed when the biggest outage in 50-100 years hits and you're sitting in the dark because you didn't properly prepare.

*I'm not talking storms/weather, I'm talking major geomagnetic storms and MMI VIII or higher earthquakes, etc.

I agree.
I think the best solution is distributed generation and storage. This is much less susceptible to disruption. Lots of small scale generation and storage is very resilient. A few sites might go down. OTOH, long distance gas, oil, electricity distribution is very vulnerable.

 

[David_Cary]

I was thinking storms etc. In my area and I suspect the majority of the country, storms are the big issue.
Earthquakes are a possibility everywhere but significant ones outside of CA are rare.

2 systems are better than 1. The electric grid is more susceptible to terrorist attacks.

Nothing is perfect and on site fuel storage is better. And I'll take the likelihood of storms or small scale terrorist actions over earthquakes and geomagnetic storms.

 

[mspohr]

You’re About to See Way More Electric School Buses—Here’s Why

There’ll be a version based on the Ford E-Transit, and smaller companies as well as international automakers will soon be helping school districts get set up with e-buses.

www.autoweek.com

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I agree.
I think the best solution is distributed generation and storage. This is much less susceptible to disruption. Lots of small scale generation and storage is very resilient. A few sites might go down. OTOH, long distance gas, oil, electricity distribution is very vulnerable.

The coming explosion of PV manufacturing capacity, the massive queues for interconnection approval for utility-scale PV, and rapidly-growing battery manufacturing, I think you're going to see much more small-scale. It's easier when the question is whether the local grid can take the feed.

 

[mspohr]

Your Depleted EV Battery Pack Could Power the Grid after Sunset

The used EV batteries can eliminate blackouts and clean the grid for up to five years before they get recycled.

www.autoweek.com

Those reused EV battery packs can keep the grid operating cleanly for more than five years, at which time they will be shipped to a recycler and made into new batteries. It’s another use for the batteries in their lifecycle that can help keep the grid running on renewable energy—and reduce the amount of non-renewable energy—required to keep everyone’s lights on and air conditioners running.

 

[nwdiver]

Who wants one less thing that can explode their home?

 

[SageBrush]

Those reused EV battery packs can keep the grid operating cleanly for more than five years, at which time they will be shipped to a recycler and made into new batteries. It’s another use for the batteries in their lifecycle that can help keep the grid running on renewable energy—and reduce the amount of non-renewable energy—required to keep everyone’s lights on and air conditioners running.

It's a nice idea on paper, but I doubt it will ever happen outside of pilots and PR stunts. Two extra rounds of installation are expensive, and QA/QC/Maintenance is going to be a rats nest. It reminds me of replacing cells in car packs. It works ... somewhat. But with no consistency

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's a nice idea on paper, but I doubt it will ever happen outside of pilots and PR stunts. Two extra rounds of installation are expensive, and QA/QC/Maintenance is going to be a rats nest. It reminds me of replacing cells in car packs. It works ... somewhat. But with no consistency

I'm similarly doubtful. I think the only thing that _could_ make it possible would be the need for collection for recycling anyway. I don't think it would happen soon and not in small systems.

Part of the problem is that using used modules means that you're always hanging off whatever the industry was doing 10 years ago and the effective energy density of the aged cells is going to be lower.

But let's say there's a future scenario with high EV sales, batteries relatively cheap and a pattern where you have a lot of aged batteries with a chunk obviously dying through component failure rather than degradation. If they wouldn't bother repairing such older batteries you _might_ be able to have enough scale to have a system that can compete using "free" batteries taken out of the recycling stream. But I still don't think the economics would beat future batteries.

Maybe it could work if the product is a self-contained mid-size system for off-grid use, such as on construction sites or special events.

 

[mspohr]

I'm similarly doubtful. I think the only thing that _could_ make it possible would be the need for collection for recycling anyway. I don't think it would happen soon and not in small systems.

Part of the problem is that using used modules means that you're always hanging off whatever the industry was doing 10 years ago and the effective energy density of the aged cells is going to be lower.

But let's say there's a future scenario with high EV sales, batteries relatively cheap and a pattern where you have a lot of aged batteries with a chunk obviously dying through component failure rather than degradation. If they wouldn't bother repairing such older batteries you _might_ be able to have enough scale to have a system that can compete using "free" batteries taken out of the recycling stream. But I still don't think the economics would beat future batteries.

Maybe it could work if the product is a self-contained mid-size system for off-grid use, such as on construction sites or special events.

They seem to be taking advantage of "free" batteries which would otherwise just be sent to recycling. The power density is mostly irrelevant in this scenario where you have virtually unlimited space to set up the batteries.
The supply of these free batteries should increase rapidly in the coming years as more EV batteries reach their end of life for mobile use.
It looks like they have software which monitors the batteries closely and detects defects or loss of capacity. This enables them to send finally depleted batteries on to recycling.
I have to think that free batteries will be cost effective even with a shorter lifespan.

 

[holeydonut]

The new forecast for a monthly electricity bill nationwide this Summer is going to be $529. Monthly bills for Non-CARE (aka regular income) is going to be way over $1,000 for folks in California. Hope you all got some solar installed.

The median mortgage payment in the USA is $1,100... so over half going to pay for some electricity this Summer. Nice.

Reports say millions are behind on utility bills local companies offer tips to help out

According to CNN, this summer people can expect to see their electricity bills to be the same or higher than last summer.

www.wevv.com

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

They seem to be taking advantage of "free" batteries which would otherwise just be sent to recycling. The power density is mostly irrelevant in this scenario where you have virtually unlimited space to set up the batteries.
The supply of these free batteries should increase rapidly in the coming years as more EV batteries reach their end of life for mobile use.
It looks like they have software which monitors the batteries closely and detects defects or loss of capacity. This enables them to send finally depleted batteries on to recycling.
I have to think that free batteries will be cost effective even with a shorter lifespan.

The energy and power densities are relevant because there's competition with new batteries.

If the choice is between 10-year-old batteries at 2/3 capacity or new batteries at capacity 1, for equivalent capacity you need to handle 50% more battery.

Plus, the shorter lifespan, means having to cycle more batteries out.

Their approach does have the advantage of hooking up the entire battery. That's the way to make it work as it reduces costs. Ones to watch.

 

[mspohr]

The energy and power densities are relevant because there's competition with new batteries.

If the choice is between 10-year-old batteries at 2/3 capacity or new batteries at capacity 1, for equivalent capacity you need to handle 50% more battery.

Plus, the shorter lifespan, means having to cycle more batteries out.

Their approach does have the advantage of hooking up the entire battery. That's the way to make it work as it reduces costs. Ones to watch.

Power density is irrelevant where you have virtually unlimited space. Cost is most relevant.
It's easy to unplug a depleted battery and plug in a newer one.

 

[mspohr]

Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles

Last week we ran a piece by Rowan Atkinson casting doubt on the environmental benefits of electric vehicles. Here Simon Evans of Carbon Brief offers his response

www.theguardian.com

In a widely shared comment piece for the Guardian, comedian Rowan Atkinson said he felt “duped” by the green claims about electric vehicles (EVs). In support of his contention, however, Atkinson repeats a series of repeatedly debunked talking points, often used by those seeking to delay action on the climate crisis. Moreover, he suggests alternatives to EVs that are not yet widely available, would be less beneficial to the climate and are guaranteed to be more costly. Atkinson’s biggest mistake is his failure to recognise that electric vehicles already offer significant global environmental benefits, compared with combustion-engine cars.

 

[mspohr]

This electric cruise ship will use three giant retractable solar panels to power it at sea

On Wednesday, Norwegian cruise line company Hurtigruten revealed plans for a first-of-its-kind zero-emission ship. The electric-powered cruise ship will feature...

electrek.co

On Wednesday, Norwegian cruise line company Hurtigruten revealed plans for a first-of-its-kind zero-emission ship. The electric-powered cruise ship will feature retractable sails with solar panels to harness energy from the wind and sun while storing it in powerful batteries.

 

[mspohr]

The world's energy system is 'no longer fit for purpose,' says energy council chief

The council's most recent report forecasts that around half of the global energy system will still not be electrified by 2050.

www.cnbc.com

The council's most recent report forecasts that around half of the global energy system will still not be electrified by 2050, which would mark a blow to many governments' net-zero pledges.

The most recent pulse from April shows that the world energy system is no longer fit for purpose," Wilkinson told CNBC's "Squawk Box Asia" Wednesday, in reference to the findings from her organization's Energy Pulse reports which offer snapshots of trends across the energy ecosystem.

 

[mspohr]

Electric company fights back.

If Mainers vote yes, they will make history – endorsing a first-of-its-kind plan to create a state-level, public power company through a hostile takeover. But the parent companies of the existing utilities are spending millions to try and stop that. It’s a vote which experts say could reverberate around the country as legacy, investor-owned utilities are being challenged to decarbonize while state officials adopt more aggressive climate agendas amid customer frustration at high rates and outages.

Power companies spend millions to fight Maine’s proposed non-profit utility

The US’s first state-run public power company could be created when Maine votes later this year – but utilities are fighting it

www.theguardian.com

 

[SageBrush]

If Mainers vote yes, they will make history – endorsing a first-of-its-kind plan to create a state-level, public power company through a hostile takeover.

If they get the stranded assets too, the promise of cheap electricity by virtue of public ownership is not going to be realized. I don't think most consumers know (or care) that the elephant in the room is that utilities until recently invested in fossils.

That clock cannot be turned back, all they can do is decide who gets to hold the bag.

 

[mspohr]

If they get the stranded assets too, the promise of cheap electricity by virtue of public ownership is not going to be realized. I don't think most consumers know (or care) that the elephant in the room is that utilities until recently invested in fossils.

That clock cannot be turned back, all they can do is decide who gets to hold the bag.

TFA says that this is for the distribution system only. No power plants.

 

[SageBrush]

TFA says that this is for the distribution system only. No power plants.

No wonder the incumbent utility is having a hissy fit. Personally, I think it is great if it happens. The AGW denialist utilities bought fossil plants. Now their shareholders get to pay for the short-sightedness.

My fingers are crossed, although frankly I'll be surprised if it plays out this way.

 

[mspohr]