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"CPO" vs. "Used" terminology

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Ostrichsak

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2018
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Colorado, USA
Moderator note: This post and the 15 posts that follow were moved from a different thread (I want to buy a used S with free supercharging. Should I go Private or Tesla ?).

What about premium connectivity? Is it included in CPO or private sales?
Tesla sells used, not CPO. They discontinued their CPO program a year ago.

Cars that have FUSC generally also have free premium data for life. See my previous post (#17, quoted below for convenience) about where your best bet to shop is if these are important to you. Summary: private party cars made before 1/2017.

It's pretty simple: If FUSC is the question the only answer is private party purchase of a car manufactured before 1/2017. Tesla doesn't even have it on used cars and removes it from cars that did have it. They then choose to add it on a case by case basis to cars that aren't selling as an incentive to move them but even in this rare case it's not true FUSC as it will NOT transfer to the next owner or be worth anything in resale. Not really sure why a poll is even necessary as this is a pretty cut and dry topic. Sure there are random and rare outliers to this statement but as a general rule of thumb, that's the most simplistic summary of options. By and large, if FUSC is the question then private party purchase is the solution.

Now, you can get into what it's really worth and if you really need it or other factors but, give this was the topic of the thread, that's the answer. Pretty simple. No poll necessary. The only reason a person would vote Tesla in this poll is if they're operating from information over a year old. Quite a lot has changed since then and it makes that vote entirely inaccurate in almost every case as it applies to true FUSC.
 
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Tesla stopped calling them CPO but it’s still the same thing...

“manufacturer supplied, approved against a set of criteria defined by them, and warrantied by them

You may have issues with their criteria especially over cosmetics but every manufacturer has their own standard.

Put another way, what’s missing to stop it being a “CPO” other than cosmetics? The key elements regarding mileage checks, ownership checks, recall and safety checks, warranty provision, etc are all still there.
 
Tesla stopped calling them CPO but it’s still the same thing...

“manufacturer supplied, approved against a set of criteria defined by them, and warrantied by them

You may have issues with their criteria especially over cosmetics but every manufacturer has their own standard.

Put another way, what’s missing to stop it being a “CPO” other than cosmetics? The key elements regarding mileage checks, ownership checks, recall and safety checks, warranty provision, etc are all still there.

No, it's not still the same thing. It's quite different and continuing to intentionally call it something it's not isn't making it so and only serves to confuse potential buyers.

Ask yourself, why did Tesla put forth the effort to systematically and completely eliminate the term "CPO" from any and all locations if it's the same. It's not. It's just not. There's a very select few people on this forum who want to argue this simple fact with me and it's already created confusion from those who don't fully understand the CPO program no longer exists. There's even threads posted very recently of new owners who are now in a poor situation with Tesla because they thought they were buying a "CPO" car based on posts they read here. People buy used from Tesla thinking it's a CPO still because of people continuing to incorrectly call used Tesla Cars "CPO" when they aren't. You and I may know the difference but if you're just now coming to the party these terms and facts can be quite confusing so why intentionally muddy the waters by using improper terminology?

When Tesla was doing the CPO program they only selected certain cars that were exceptional version of their cars that were traded in. They couldn't have an accident history or repairs and basically needed to be in nearly perfect cosmetic condition with any and all issues being refurbished, repaired or replaced. Specimens with substantial versions of any of these went to auction. If you bought a Tesla CPO and discovered an issue later that was clearly a cosmetic type issue that was missed initially you could bring it to their attention and they would likely resolve this issue to your satisfaction. The delivery was more akin to taking delivery of a brand new Tesla and it was quite the experience.

This is a FAR cry from what this program has devolved into. This is EXACTLY why, after tons of backlash, Tesla removed any and all mention of the term "CPO" from all of their platforms. We need to make sure we do the same during our discussions (unless, of course, you're referring to those specific cars that were sold during a time when the CPO program still existed) because it does a disservice to those who are new to the used Tesla topic and are seeking information. They see the term CPO and assume that Tesla's CPO program is like all other luxury brands that endeavor to present a car buying experience as close to a brand new luxury car experience as they can. This is no longer the case.

Tesla doesn't do this. They sell used cars. Many horror stories of the condition of the cars sold by Tesla over the last year or two which is indicative of the fact that Tesla doesn't care about it's used car program or it's customers who buy used cars. It's an annoyance to them and gets in the way of selling new cars which is all they care about. They give low-ball offers so bad that people should be offended because they simply don't want your trade. But, for reasons known only to them, people continue rewarding bad behavior & losing TONS of money in the process and accepting them. Tesla is then forced to continue taking in trades that they try to rush out the other side w/o even so much as a basic inspection even though they tout a 70-point comprehensive inspection on the listings. Look at some of the blatant items people are faced with upon taking delivery and ask yourself how someone could have missed that if they did any sort of inspection at all let alone the 70-point inspection they claim they do on all cars.

Sure they also carry a warranty against manufacturer defect which is one of the few hold-overs from the previous CPO program. But this is mechanical issues and it's important that potential buyers know this on the front end so that they treat the transaction as it is: a used car purchase. They need to know that, unless they look it over carefully and get Tesla to agree to any refurbishment on the front end in writing they are taking FULL ownership of all cosmetic issues that the car has at the time of singing paperwork. Tesla is gross in how they process used car sales by intentionally tricking people into signing paperwork and effectively legally taking ownership delivery before they even let them see the car. You have to demand seeing it before signing anything and they will likely push back on this front and even make it seem like they're doing you a tremendous favor by letting you see it first. Don't even bother asking to test drive. This is done intentionally and it puts the buyer in a horrible position if the car doesn't meet up to the condition of a handful of low-res & intentionally poorly lit photos. Often time the condition isn't anything that's presented beforehand and if you signed before getting any sort of cosmetic issues because you thought it was a "CPO" you're basically now screwed and at the mercy of Tesla to get free work done and we all know how that goes.

It's simple: Tesla previously had a CPO program. It no longer does. It now sells used cars that have a warranty against manufacturer defect and mechanical failure on non-wear items. To continue calling it a CPO program when there's a clear line of delineation only serves to further confuse those who don't understand that difference which is future Tesla owners trying to wade through the waves of confusion intentionally created by Tesla.
 
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No, it's not still the same thing. It's quite different and continuing to intentionally call it something it's not isn't making it so and only serves to confuse potential buyers.

Ask yourself, why did Tesla put forth the effort to systematically and completely eliminate the term "CPO" from any and all locations if it's the same. It's not. It's just not. There's a very select few people on this forum who want to argue this simple fact with me and it's already created confusion from those who don't fully understand the CPO program no longer exists. There's even threads posted very recently of new owners who are now in a poor situation with Tesla because they thought they were buying a "CPO" car based on posts they read here. People buy used from Tesla thinking it's a CPO still because of people continuing to incorrectly call used Tesla Cars "CPO" when they aren't. You and I may know the difference but if you're just now coming to the party these terms and facts can be quite confusing so why intentionally muddy the waters by using improper terminology?

When Tesla was doing the CPO program they only selected certain cars that were exceptional version of their cars that were traded in. They couldn't have an accident history or repairs and basically needed to be in nearly perfect cosmetic condition with any and all issues being refurbished, repaired or replaced. Specimens with substantial versions of any of these went to auction. If you bought a Tesla CPO and discovered an issue later that was clearly a cosmetic type issue that was missed initially you could bring it to their attention and they would likely resolve this issue to your satisfaction. The delivery was more akin to taking delivery of a brand new Tesla and it was quite the experience.

This is a FAR cry from what this program has devolved into. This is EXACTLY why, after tons of backlash, Tesla removed any and all mention of the term "CPO" from all of their platforms. We need to make sure we do the same during our discussions (unless, of course, you're referring to those specific cars that were sold during a time when the CPO program still existed) because it does a disservice to those who are new to the used Tesla topic and are seeking information. They see the term CPO and assume that Tesla's CPO program is like all other luxury brands that endeavor to present a car buying experience as close to a brand new luxury car experience as they can. This is no longer the case.

Tesla doesn't do this. They sell used cars. Many horror stories of the condition of the cars sold by Tesla over the last year or two which is indicative of the fact that Tesla doesn't care about it's used car program or it's customers who buy used cars. It's an annoyance to them and gets in the way of selling new cars which is all they care about. They give low-ball offers so bad that people should be offended because they simply don't want your trade. But, for reasons known only to them, people continue rewarding bad behavior & losing TONS of money in the process and accepting them. Tesla is then forced to continue taking in trades that they try to rush out the other side w/o even so much as a basic inspection even though they tout a 70-point comprehensive inspection on the listings. Look at some of the blatant items people are faced with upon taking delivery and ask yourself how someone could have missed that if they did any sort of inspection at all let alone the 70-point inspection they claim they do on all cars.

Sure they also carry a warranty against manufacturer defect which is one of the few hold-overs from the previous CPO program. But this is mechanical issues and it's important that potential buyers know this on the front end so that they treat the transaction as it is: a used car purchase. They need to know that, unless they look it over carefully and get Tesla to agree to any refurbishment on the front end in writing they are taking FULL ownership of all cosmetic issues that the car has at the time of singing paperwork. Tesla is gross in how they process used car sales by intentionally tricking people into signing paperwork and effectively legally taking ownership delivery before they even let them see the car. You have to demand seeing it before signing anything and they will likely push back on this front and even make it seem like they're doing you a tremendous favor by letting you see it first. Don't even bother asking to test drive. This is done intentionally and it puts the buyer in a horrible position if the car doesn't meet up to the condition of a handful of low-res & intentionally poorly lit photos. Often time the condition isn't anything that's presented beforehand and if you signed before getting any sort of cosmetic issues because you thought it was a "CPO" you're basically now screwed and at the mercy of Tesla to get free work done and we all know how that goes.

It's simple: Tesla previously had a CPO program. It no longer does. It now sells used cars that have a warranty against manufacturer defect and mechanical failure on non-wear items. To continue calling it a CPO program when there's a clear line of delineation only serves to further confuse those who don't understand that difference which is future Tesla owners trying to wade through the waves of confusion intentionally created by Tesla.

We'll have to agree to disagree

- Tesla sell the car
- Tesla undertake a varierty of checks which pretty much only Tesla can perform
- Tesla provide warranty on the car that no other seller can offer
- Tesla change the specification of many of the cars if they so want including turning on or off free sueprcharging, premium conenctivity, EAP to AP or FSD etc
- In Teslas data feed they have a flag called "CPO Refurb" and whether that particular car has had it completed or not

So which part of a typical CPO program is missing? The standards are poor compared to premium brands but that doesn't negate they DO have a checklist that they publicise and use.

Musk as we all know likes to do things differently, but its widely recognised, seemly by pretty much everybody except you, that a used car sold by the manufacturer is referred to as a CPO car.

So it it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and clucks like a duck - its a duck.
 
I don't care what anybody calls it, but buying a "not new" car from Tesla is not the same as buying a used car from a 3rd party dealer or privately. Tesla isn't the most friendly company to deal with whether buying a new or not new car so its entirely consistent to their brand values to put the customer behind their own interests. But there are distinct benefits most notably the best warranty you can get and an accurate description of the car specification. I'll carry on with CPO because its a lot easier than saying "Teslas used car sales which aren't really the same as other 3rd party sales and not as good as it once was, but still offers lots of benefits that other 3rd party sellers can't offer".

I imagine ev-cpo don't want to change their website name either having built it up!
 
I imagine ev-cpo don't want to change their website name either having built it up!

This is correct! When I started the site, Tesla only sold CPO cars, not even Inventory cars back then, so the name made sense. But after 5+ years, the site has great SEO and name recognition, so I'm kinda stuck with it for now. I did launch EV-TSLA.com as a mobile site to help move away from the "CPO" moniker.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree

- Tesla sell the car
- Tesla undertake a varierty of checks which pretty much only Tesla can perform
- Tesla provide warranty on the car that no other seller can offer
- Tesla change the specification of many of the cars if they so want including turning on or off free sueprcharging, premium conenctivity, EAP to AP or FSD etc
- In Teslas data feed they have a flag called "CPO Refurb" and whether that particular car has had it completed or not

So which part of a typical CPO program is missing? The standards are poor compared to premium brands but that doesn't negate they DO have a checklist that they publicise and use.

Musk as we all know likes to do things differently, but its widely recognised, seemly by pretty much everybody except you, that a used car sold by the manufacturer is referred to as a CPO car.

So it it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and clucks like a duck - its a duck.

So if it's the same thing perhaps you can enlighten us all, given your immense wisdom on the topic, why Tesla would bother removing ALL mention of the term "CPO" from all of it's marketing. Everywhere. Seems like a lot of effort from a company who's not known for putting forth much effort unless it's in an effort to cover it's own rear end from litigation if it's the same thing.

The C in CPO standards for Certified which is the manufacturer putting their name on it as being close to flawless and you're paying more for a better version of a used car. Tesla doesn't do this. They take in crashed and fixed cars with blemished vehicle history reports and hope you don't notice or care. If you do notice or care... too bad. There's been a lot of people lately who, through reading the forums here about people calling them CPO bought a used car from Tesla. They also fell for the crooked business method of making them sign to accept delivery before even seeing the car. In the end they've got a used car that isn't the condition they thought they were buying and Tesla has told them... tough. Your car now. This is why it's important that people realize it's a used car they're buying and NOT a Certified Pre-Owned car.

Why would anyone feel the need to waste time arguing about wanting to call something by the wrong name when you can just call it a Tesla Used car? Are you that starved for an argument that you need to artificially create one and push back against what's clearly common sense based on the simple fact that Tesla officially and obviously discontinued the CPO in name and function? I never understood why someone would be so adamant about calling something by the wrong name that they would intentionally mislead others and then argue about it online. What a waste of time. It's a Tesla Used Car program. It's not a CPO and Tesla themselves made that painfully clear. The only ones who perpetuate the term are uninformed people online who continue to mislead others who are uninformed.
 
I don't care what anybody calls it, but buying a "not new" car from Tesla is not the same as buying a used car from a 3rd party dealer or privately. Tesla isn't the most friendly company to deal with whether buying a new or not new car so its entirely consistent to their brand values to put the customer behind their own interests. But there are distinct benefits most notably the best warranty you can get and an accurate description of the car specification. I'll carry on with CPO because its a lot easier than saying "Teslas used car sales which aren't really the same as other 3rd party sales and not as good as it once was, but still offers lots of benefits that other 3rd party sellers can't offer".

I imagine ev-cpo don't want to change their website name either having built it up!
Regardless of a 3rd party's url that doesn't make it accurate. I also especially enjoy how you tried making it seem like "Tesla Used" was so much more difficult than typing "Tesla CPO" to make your point.
 
As much as I like disagreeing with @Ostrichsak he’s right on this, calling it a CPO when the manufacturer themselves clearly do not call it that sets a false expectation from potential buyers who come to this forum to learn about Tesla.
If you go to any dealership, bmw, Mercedes, Lexus... etc and look at a CPO it’s miles better than what Tesla sells, Tesla themselves have acknowledged this hence the removal of CPO naming from the site.

Doesn’t really matter which term is easier to type out when one is correct and the other is not.
 
Tesla publish the criteria of their program on the details of every car. Any one getting caught out simply can't read. Yes its rubbish compared to other premium makes, that point hasn't been disputed, its still the manufacturer.

It was said before by George, and I'll say it this time, we will have to agree to disagree. But buying from Tesla is NOT the same as buying from a 3rd party.

One other point, Tesla call ex demo and loan cars, some a year or more old and some with more than 10k miles on them as "new". I think we should ignore what Tesla calls things. Musk like to be different at times for the sake of it.
 
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Tesla publish the criteria of their program on the details of every car. Any one getting caught out simply can't read. Yes its rubbish compared to other premium makes, that point hasn't been disputed, its still the manufacturer.

It was said before by George, and I'll say it this time, we will have to agree to disagree. But buying from Tesla is NOT the same as buying from a 3rd party.

One other point, Tesla call ex demo and loan cars, some a year or more old and some with more than 10k miles on them as "new". I think we should ignore what Tesla calls things. Musk like to be different at times for the sake of it.
There is absolutely no upside to calling a used car a CPO that is not a CPO. None.

Incorrectly calling a used car a CPO could confuse a potential buyer into thinking they're getting something they're not.

Given those two possible outcomes, why would anybody in their right mind choose to incorrectly call it CPO? What is it exactly you are gaining from incorrectly calling a used car a CPO?

Why do three or four people insist on arguing this fact incessantly?
 
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There is absolutely no upside to calling a used car a CPO that is not a CPO. None.
Apart from making it clear the car is being sold by Tesla and therefore comes with the mechanical and safety checks that Tesla detail and perform, that it is listed correctly in terms of specification and if comes with the best warranty you can get?

Why do three or four people insist on arguing this fact incessantly?
Yes why do you?
 
Apart from making it clear the car is being sold by Tesla and therefore comes with the mechanical and safety checks that Tesla detail and perform, that it is listed correctly in terms of specification and if comes with the best warranty you can get?

If calling a car "Tesla Used" specifically doesn't inform the reader that it's a used car being sold by Tesla, something tells me calling it "CPO" isn't the solution either and we may just need to resort to drawing pictures with crayons instead.

Yes why do you?
Because I've read numerous threads now where new buyers of Tesla Used cars got screwed due to confusion propagated by intentionally incorrectly calling "Tesla Used" cars "CPOs".

Ironic that you claim that incorrectly calling these cars CPO makes things more clear when in actuality it just confuses the situation even more.
 
People getting screwed over buying from Tesla has nothing to do with what they call their used/cpo or new for that matter operation.

People get screwed over because Tesla are far to arrogant to give a damn.

You may have a rose tinted view of how it was back in the day, and it was like that with everything, but not anymore. Now everybody jokes about "within tolerance", Tesla making tweaks to push more MCU failures to be out of warranty by slowing down logging, nurfing charging speeds, the list goes on. And you think just changing it from CPO to Used explains away all that pi55 poor behaviour by Tesla making it acceptable?
 
People getting screwed over buying from Tesla has nothing to do with what they call their used/cpo or new for that matter operation.

People get screwed over because Tesla are far to arrogant to give a damn.

You may have a rose tinted view of how it was back in the day, and it was like that with everything, but not anymore. Now everybody jokes about "within tolerance", Tesla making tweaks to push more MCU failures to be out of warranty by slowing down logging, nurfing charging speeds, the list goes on. And you think just changing it from CPO to Used explains away all that pi55 poor behaviour by Tesla making it acceptable?

No, but it might better inform a potential buyer on what it is they're actually buying and help to know what to look for and how to treat the transaction. It's also a clear line of delineation Tesla put in the concrete before it dried when they removed the CPO moniker that we should use to help distinguish from a time when they didn't resell previously wrecked and repaired vehicles along with many other aspects that eroded even further since then. It's a simple concept and why anyone would push-back to further clarifying what it is Tesla is selling is a mystery. There's nothing personally to be gained but choosing to call it the proper thing could help someone new to the community.
 
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No, but it might better inform a potential buyer on what it is they're actually buying and help to know what to look for and how to treat the transaction. It's also a clear line of delineation Tesla put in the concrete before it dried when they removed the CPO moniker that we should use to help distinguish from a time when they didn't resell previously wrecked and repaired vehicles along with many other aspects that eroded even further since then. It's a simple concept and why anyone would push-back to further clarifying what it is Tesla is selling is a mystery. There's nothing personally to be gained but choosing to call it the proper thing could help someone new to the community.
Honestly, what you guys are discussing here is what brought me to the forums. I literally took delivery of my used car yesterday. I WAS definitely under the impression that it was CPO...luckily this car came in almost flawless on the exterior, and interior is pretty darn good. Not bad for 60k miles for a 2017. Pricing was also lower than what i was seeing as the average for a 2017 P100d. But reading this thread really had me worried that the warranties may not work. The used Tesla rep advised me this exactly..."Also, keep in mind that we do not provide extended warranties on our used vehicles so you will not be able to purchase that.", this has me confused as :

1) my prevous 2014 used Model S I was able to buy an addtional 4 year extended warranty that transferred over to my buyer
2) Extended Service Agreement
 
Honestly, what you guys are discussing here is what brought me to the forums. I literally took delivery of my used car yesterday. I WAS definitely under the impression that it was CPO...luckily this car came in almost flawless on the exterior, and interior is pretty darn good. Not bad for 60k miles for a 2017. Pricing was also lower than what i was seeing as the average for a 2017 P100d. But reading this thread really had me worried that the warranties may not work. The used Tesla rep advised me this exactly..."Also, keep in mind that we do not provide extended warranties on our used vehicles so you will not be able to purchase that.", this has me confused as :

You cannot purchase an extended warranty directly from Tesla for a used car. You can purchase a third-party warranty from Xcelerate (X-Care) and will probably do better financially.

Regarding the whole "used" vs. "CPO" thing, I think NOW Tesla falls somewhere in-between. Once they stopped posting photos, they have assumed the responsibility of reconditioning cars as stated on their listings but just not to the level that they did before they changed from CPO to used.

Tesla's original CPO program was far and beyond the best CPO program in the industry where you would receive effectively like-new conditioning as well as a full 4-year warranty. Seat with a blemish = new seat. Curb-rash on a rim = new wheel. This program was unsustainable which is what I think led to the change to just plain used.

Now they agree to remediate certain issues like curb rash, scratches, dents, etc... if it's beyond a certain degree. I think this is reasonable but I am not crazy about the downgrade in the warranty to 1 year/10k miles.

As for whether they are CPO or not - CPO is defined as (source: Wikipedia):
The term Certified Pre-Owned was conceived by corporations in order to find a more favorable alternative to marketing products as 'Used' which causes consumers to impose their cognitive biases associated with 'Used' items onto prospective purchases. There is no distinction or standard as to what is the difference between a Used item and a CPO one, except that it is implied the CPO has been inspected and confirmed as working. Inspection, refurbishing, certification of functioning and other methods are sometimes employed by companies, but there is no standard for what distinguishes that which is CPO from something that is used.

CPOs may be late-models, differing from other used cars by having been inspected, refurbished, and certified by a manufacturer or other certifying authority. They also typically include an extended warranty, special financing, and additional benefits. Luxury marques Lexus and Mercedes-Benz were among the first to create CPO programs in the 1990s. There are variations as to what is termed certified pre-owned, so the distinctions are important. Manufacturer (or "factory") CPO vehicles are only sold at authorized dealers specializing in that particular franchise. Factory CPO cars are generally five years old or newer and have less than 80,000 miles.
...

Based on this - cars sold by Tesla would absolutely qualify as CPO. As to why they went through the trouble of changing the nomenclature, my guess is to avoid comparison to their original program which far exceeded what the definition above states.
 
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What do you call a CPO program that forces you to buy sight unseen, and won't even give you pictures of the actual car?

I call it, Crapshoot Pre Owned.

And for a higher price than PP, a very basic warranty, with connectivity and FUSC stripped off.

Caveat Emptor as they say.
 
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As for whether they are CPO or not - CPO is defined as (source: Wikipedia):

Based on this - cars sold by Tesla would absolutely qualify as CPO.

At least in California if you market a car as Certified Pre-Owned, it has a specific legal meaning, and you have to follow certain laws. It appears that Tesla didn't want to follow those laws so they discontinued the CPO program and started selling used cars instead. So no, cars sold by Tesla now do not qualify as CPO.
 
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