I don't use range mode because when my car is cold I want the cabin heat and the battery preheat to function at its maximum. I preheat my cabin before driving home after the car has sat out all day. My heat is set at 66 degrees and I use Visible Tesla to schedule an automatic hvac on at 4 PM. I leave about 4:30 PM so by then the cabin is warm, the windows are defrosted/snow melted and the battery regen will be around 30-40 instead of near zero. I do the same thing in the morning but that all happens on shore power so it doesn't hurt my range.
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I meant that with pre-heating for 30 minutes or more, the regen limiter would be around 30, instead of close to zero (i.e. I had adequate regen for city driving when leaving work).
SlyWombat
Member
Preheating to 22, but 30 minutes before leaving. But I guess the main pet peeve is the different driving behaviour because of this, it is like saying, well in the winter time your brakes dont work as well for the first 20 minutes of driving your car, so wait until they warm up, otherwise press a little harder, but if it is a warm day, well it will work the same, so pay attention when coasting on that off ramp, you might not time it right now.
Maybe someone can help me here? For the first time in a year's ownership my S has been parked outside at night for the last weeks. I've been using VisibleTesla to pre-warm the car every morning, and I do not have range mode set. The car is connected to shore power. But frankly, I'm not really sure to what extent pre-warming the car also warms the battery.
The last nights have been between 3C to 10C. No matter what I do it seems that the battery always has an initial regen limit of around 30kW. For example, this morning the outside temp was 10C. I firstly turned on pre-heating at 6:45 am. Then VT turned it on again at 7:15 am. When I came out to the car at 7:45 it was nice & warm but still had a regen limit of 30kW. Note that takes around 15km driving before the regen limit disappears.
So is there a limit to the extent that the battery is warmed by pre-heating? Does turning on pre-heat multiple times (on shore power) further heat the battery or is there a cutoff?
I guess that the battery gets warmed when charging and therefore in an ideal world it would be best to ensure that the charge cycle ends just before one needs to drive it. Shame that it's not possible to setup charging that way.
The last nights have been between 3C to 10C. No matter what I do it seems that the battery always has an initial regen limit of around 30kW. For example, this morning the outside temp was 10C. I firstly turned on pre-heating at 6:45 am. Then VT turned it on again at 7:15 am. When I came out to the car at 7:45 it was nice & warm but still had a regen limit of 30kW. Note that takes around 15km driving before the regen limit disappears.
So is there a limit to the extent that the battery is warmed by pre-heating? Does turning on pre-heat multiple times (on shore power) further heat the battery or is there a cutoff?
I guess that the battery gets warmed when charging and therefore in an ideal world it would be best to ensure that the charge cycle ends just before one needs to drive it. Shame that it's not possible to setup charging that way.
hingisfan
hingisfan_Mark_V
Just curious why you guys use VisibleTesla to do the preheating? Can the Tesla app not do this properly? (Sorry is dumb question, non-owner here)
Currently the Tesla app doesn't have a schedule feature on it.
Also, Visible Tesla will work on Mac OS, and Windows. Tesla app works on iPad and iPhone/android.
The tricks are (at least they work for me):
- Start the charge so that it will end close to the time you leave.
- Charge with range mode off, drive with range mode on.
- Below zero C, use two preheat cycles. (Probably three below -18 C but it doesn't get that cold here.)
- Set the temperature high. 26 for most cases, when very cold set it to HI.
When you start driving the yellow line will be around the 30 kW mark. It takes me about ten miles to get rid of the line in light urban traffic (35-40 speed limit) in range mode.
fluxemag
Member
I moved to Portland OR from Phoenix AZ last February. Heating the car and battery uses way more power than air conditioning (even when the car was 140 degrees inside to start). I have a 40kwh car with a 135 mile rated range. That's good for about 110 miles in mild weather, 100 miles in hot weather, and maybe 80 miles in the cold. The battery heater is the main source of extra power draw. I have sleep mode enabled, so it's always limited on regen because the battery is cold, and that further reduces my efficiency. My garage is better described as a barn, detached from the main house. I haven't installed a 14-50 yet, so I've been charging using 15A 110V wall outlet for two months. I came to the realization last week that it would not be able to keep up with my 50 mile daily commute in winter. Entirely my fault for not having the right equipment to charge, but I'm just pointing out that it can be hard to achieve less than 400Wh/mi when the temps are below freezing.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
2013 Toyota Prius
Summer MPG: July average = 54.6 MPG
Winter MPG: January average = 42.7 MPG
11.9 MPG Difference Between Winter and Summer Driving
about a 21% reduction in MPG due to outside temps and effect on battery and regeneration coupled with the less powerful winter blend of gasoline.
Prius kept in unheated garage.
MPG data fastidiously kept on FUELLY.com
Summer MPG: July average = 54.6 MPG
Winter MPG: January average = 42.7 MPG
11.9 MPG Difference Between Winter and Summer Driving
about a 21% reduction in MPG due to outside temps and effect on battery and regeneration coupled with the less powerful winter blend of gasoline.
Prius kept in unheated garage.
MPG data fastidiously kept on FUELLY.com
The reduction is certainly real, but there while the effects on the battery (which is NiMH, very different from the Tesla lithium batteries,) are likely a factor, other effects of the cold are likely more important to the decrease.A longer warm up cycle in open loop over fueling, having the keep the engine on more for heat, cold fluids and tires and cold dense outside air to punch through that all mean more energy required from the car overall at any efficiency.Walter
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
If there is any way to change the breaker to where you charge in your barn to switch to 15amp 240Volt because it makes a world of difference. It should more than double your charging capacity (240v is more efficient). Requires making it a dedicated outlet though. Could work temporarily until you get your 14-50.
cipherstream
Member
I too am trying to find a way to figure out what to expect for range loss in the cold - I'm seeing anywhere from 30-50% when it is colder than -10C
as in - the car uses 150km to drive 100 km. I expected 30% - but 50% seems high to me - is anyone else seeing these numbers? This is for a 180km trip.
as in - the car uses 150km to drive 100 km. I expected 30% - but 50% seems high to me - is anyone else seeing these numbers? This is for a 180km trip.
The problem is that this is almost a "how long is a piece of string" question. In winter there are many factors (no particular order):
1. Denser air
2. Wet or snowy roads **
3. Wind **
4. Temperature
5. Preheat or not and temperature of garage **
6. Charging end time **
7. Reduced battery capacity
8. Lower tire pressure (unless you have compensated) **
9. Higher viscosity lubricant (until warmed up) **
10. More weight (if snow has accumulated)
11. Heating the cabin **
Note that this kind of loss is not really different than an ICE vehicle. The main difference is that you can't not know the difference in the Tesla.
** Most important factors
I can put those in order...
Most important factor is #1 denser air - which is of course directly related to #4 temperature.
#4 temperature is also important due to heating (#11) - if the car is preheated your range is MUCH better than if it is stone cold.
#2 Road conditions can be important. Worst range I've ever seen in summer was driving through a heavy downpour with gobs of standing water on the road. It doesn't matter much if it is a little wet or snowy. It matters if you're slogging through deep stuff (rain or snow).
#3 Wind can have a significant effect, especially if headwind but also if crosswind.
Everything else on the list is relatively minor.
Most important factor is #1 denser air - which is of course directly related to #4 temperature.
#4 temperature is also important due to heating (#11) - if the car is preheated your range is MUCH better than if it is stone cold.
#2 Road conditions can be important. Worst range I've ever seen in summer was driving through a heavy downpour with gobs of standing water on the road. It doesn't matter much if it is a little wet or snowy. It matters if you're slogging through deep stuff (rain or snow).
#3 Wind can have a significant effect, especially if headwind but also if crosswind.
Everything else on the list is relatively minor.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Yes, this can be a big one. My first six miles can be as low as 47 Wh/mile in ideal conditions (more downhill than uphill, obviously) but the same six miles is in the 600 Wh/mile range when dealing with snow and slush on the road and cold weather. I don't use the heater much except for periodic defogging the windshield, so it isn't a large factor. Pushing through snow and slush can really suck down the energy.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
the amount of battery capacity used by the Battery Management System to bring the traction battery up to operating temperature is initially a major draw. You can minimize this by being in Range Mode wiTh Power Saving ON?
Yes, that will limit battery heating.
Be warned though, it limits preheating even when plugged in. That is counterproductive. If you want to preheat while charging turn off range mode.
Be warned though, it limits preheating even when plugged in. That is counterproductive. If you want to preheat while charging turn off range mode.
mknox
Well-Known Member
My "most important" factor (not on your list) seems to be "length of trip".
I regularly drive between Toronto and Chicago (just got back after Christmas) and keep detailed logs of my energy use. On those long road trips, even in sub-freezing temperatures, I am seeing only an 8 to 10% increase over "Rated" whereas in the summer I am at, or slightly below "Rated" depending on the particular trip leg.
When I did my 40 mile/ 60 km (one-way) commute, I would see maybe 10 to 15% over Rated in the winter.
On the weekend, when I make frequent, short trips, I will see often more than 100% over Rated in the winter.
It seems the car uses a fairly high amount of energy for the first so many miles, then "settles down" to near Rated numbers after everything is warmed up and the car is moving heat around through the various glycol loops.
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