No, no where near the same thing. A freezer idles most of the time, only periodically running the compressor.
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Charging Concerns; Challenging Townhome Situation
- Thread starter Spacep0d
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- challenging Charging evse
No, no where near the same thing. A freezer idles most of the time, only periodically running the compressor.
Not sure why you don't want to put the load on the 120V outlets. But as long as nothing else is on the circuit, they work great. I've charged off of one for a LONG time. Take a look at the panel, generally garage circuits are on their own breaker (with GFCI).
srs5694
Active Member
Another point is that a 120v line can easily be run at 240v without changing the wire itself. Thus, a 120v NEMA 5-15 could become a 240v NEMA 6-15; and a 120v NEMA 5-20 (as described by arch4life) could become a 240v NEMA 6-20. This upgrade would require swapping out the 120v breaker for a 240v breaker and upgrading the plug in the garage. (If you have no free breaker slots, you might be able to combine some 120v circuits using half-sized 120v breakers. I'm not sure what modern code says about such breakers, though.) The result will be at least a doubling in the charge rate, in miles of range per hour.
That said, it seems to me that there are basically two problems you're facing:
- Wiring to the garage -- Physically running a new line to the garage sounds difficult. Converting an existing 120v line can get around this limit, if you're willing to accept the limits of a 15A (or maybe a 20A) 240v circuit; however, if there's only one circuit to the garage, this would rob you of your 120v outlets there, which may be a deal-breaker. In that case, you might want to look into how the existing wiring is routed. If it goes through some sort of conduit pipe, maybe another wire could be added without too much difficulty.
- The house's main-panel capacity -- Your house's dinky 60A main breaker might not be able to handle more draw, but you'll need a load analysis to determine this with certainty. If you'd need to upgrade that panel, and probably the service line from the utility poles, then that will cost a fair amount ($2,000, at least, from memory).
One more very minor point: Townhomes often provide 208V, rather than 240V, service. This won't really change things in terms of how you wire stuff, AFAIK, but it means you won't get quite as much boost in charging speed by going from 120V to 208V as you'd get going from 120V to 240V.
srs5694
Active Member
Yes, it is. When it charges, the Model 3 remains "awake," which means that its computers are running and consuming power. This consumption reduces the amount of power available to go into the battery, by a constant amount, in kW. (I don't recall precisely how much -- probably on the order of 0.1 or 0.2 kW.) There can also be effects in cold weather of the car heating the battery before charging begins, and keeping it warm while charging. In any event, the amount of power consumed for these tasks is taken off the total power available for charging, and this extra drain is a greater percentage of the total power available when charging at 120V, 12A than when charging at 240v, 32A (or whatever). Hence, charging is less efficient at lower power than at higher power.
There may be other effects related to the efficiency of the charger in the car, but I know less about that.
If the garage outlets are all on the same breaker and no other outlets are, you can add a breaker to the panel and move the white wire to the new breaker and all the outlets will be 240V. The physical plug will have to be changed out on each outlet to a 240V plug but you will be able to charge at 240V which would be twice as fast.
AdamMacDon
Member
Honestly if you're only driving 25-50 kilometers per day (15-30 miles), 110V is probably plenty for you. I know people here often act like it's not feasible, but I did it just fine for 6 months and I do an average drive of just over 50kms per day. Plugging into the 110 gives me about 1kW so I can go from 0-100% in about 50 hours. However, an average day I only use maybe 20% of the battery, so it takes more like 10 hours in reality. I don't know about you, but I sleep about 8 and have things to do in life besides drive. The only catch to this is you certainly want to find some nearby backup charging options like a supercharger or a public level 2 charger just in case. My condo has sine installed level 2 chargers, which is nice, but honestly it isn't needed for me most days.
Townhome and HOA, probably can't do solar unless they're willing to make modifications or place them on the roof with the HVAC units. Right now, I'd be happy just being able to install a Level 2 charger of some type.
One good thing is that I have a Supercharger very close to me...maybe 4 miles or so? There are also EVGo chargers there for DC3 fast-charging which I used on-occasion with the LEAF S.
Howdy! Yes, I really like the Quick 220 unit. It looks robust and has the UL approval I need for peace of mind and safety. I was looking at outlet testers but how do I test the outlets to see if I have two outlets, out of phase and on different legs? What information am I looking for if I buy a tester?
This is fascinating. It's beyond my ken, but I would certainly relay to the next electrician who comes out. When I had my LEAF I was not working from home yet, but I'll be working (mostly) from home with the Model 3.
srs5694
Active Member
+1 on this from me, with some additional comments....
Agreed that a nearby Level 2 or Supercharger would be very helpful for the days when you return home with a low SoC, like after a road trip.
Your final sentence also raises the question of whether the townhome's condo association would consider installing a public Level 2 station someplace where it might be publicly accessible and easier to install than in your garage. I obviously know nothing about the layout of the place, but if there's something like a central power transformer or community building near a public parking area, it might be practical to install a public EVSE there. You could still do most of your charging off the 120v in your garage, but the availability of the Level 2 EVSE would be helpful if you want a faster charge, and potentially help boost the value of all the units. Convincing the condo association members to pay for it could be tricky, but perhaps not impossible, especially if some others are thinking of buying EVs in the not-too-distant future.
You need a loooonnnngggg set of vom leads or an extension cord. Check the hot of one to the hot of the other and it should be 240 volts. Yiu’ll Also have to check that neither are on GFCI’s but more than likely they won’t if built that long ago.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Is that a 20A 240V garbage disposal circuit? What are you putting down there?
Converting the garage to 240V outlets (NEMA 6-20 if the wiring supports it (12ga?) or 6-15 if it doesn't) seems like the best option. This would of course make the garage outlets mostly useless unless you buy the European version of everything you'd like to plug in there.
The garage lighting and door might be on the same circuit though so it might not work... You've got figure out what wires are going from the condo to the garage. If there are two circuits going there then there's hope. Switch the "com" breakers individually and see where they go.
Is that a 20A 240V garbage disposal circuit? What are you putting down there?
Converting the garage to 240V outlets (NEMA 6-20 if the wiring supports it (12ga?) or 6-15 if it doesn't) seems like the best option. This would of course make the garage outlets mostly useless unless you buy the European version of everything you'd like to plug in there.
The garage lighting and door might be on the same circuit though so it might not work... You've got figure out what wires are going from the condo to the garage. If there are two circuits going there then there's hope. Switch the "com" breakers individually and see where they go.
Man I have no idea. We hardly use the disposal. Much of this beyond my ken, though if there's any room for a dedicated L2 (or even a Quick 220) in the garage then I am game. I just need leads (lol, no pun intended) so I know how to direct the electrician in case they're not as motivated as I am.
Too bad that writing is so sloppy coz I can barely read it on the panel box. If the disposal is 240 well there's my bandwidth right there. I don't really need a disposal and would much rather have L2 charging.
Ah sorry, I still don't understand what you're explaining here. What am I checking with? What is a 'VOM' lead? Thanks!
Sorry. A volt ohm meter. A cheap one is 15 to 20 bucks. There will be two “test leads”. You stick one pointy end in one socket and the other in the other socket and see what the AC volts read. Set the meter to read AC volts. If you are unsure have someone familiar with a VOM operation help you.
Hope that helps.
Yes! Thank you. I'm fairly technical with the work I do and working on my own motorcycle or repairs around the house—but I'm still a rank beginner when it comes to all things electrical. But, I'm willing to buy the right tools and explore my way through it. Thanks for your advice!
In order for a Quick 220 to be effective in your garage, you need to have two circuits in the garage that are fed from opposite sides of the bus in the panel. I don't see labels on your panel that would indicate that you have two circuits going to the garage...
I agree with others that your lower mileage driven means that you can probably get by with a 120 volt trickle charging solution. But what I would also recommend to make sure that you end up with a safe charging solution is to replace the existing 120v receptacle that you're going to plug into with a new commercial grade outlet and make sure that the wires are connected to it with screw terminals and not the popular backstab spring connectors (which can get weak and heat up over time, especially at fully rated current charging your car for many hours a day). Then you should be good to go....
I agree with others that your lower mileage driven means that you can probably get by with a 120 volt trickle charging solution. But what I would also recommend to make sure that you end up with a safe charging solution is to replace the existing 120v receptacle that you're going to plug into with a new commercial grade outlet and make sure that the wires are connected to it with screw terminals and not the popular backstab spring connectors (which can get weak and heat up over time, especially at fully rated current charging your car for many hours a day). Then you should be good to go....
Aha! You may have saved me some hassle. Well, I will certainly make sure the receptacle I use is thusly reinforced. I don't mind long charge times but I want to make it as robust and safe as possible. Thanks!
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