Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter

[rns-e]

Yes, I saw mention of that in the translation as well. From what I was able to gather from reading it, there was a an attempt to get a rebate which would essentially reduce the purchase price of a P85D to an 85D.

Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter - Page 67

" Even complainant, who has owned three Tesla, acknowledges Van high standard of customer service. To preserve a good relationship with our customers, we have been in direct contact with many of those who have complained, and we have offered goodwill payments even though there is no legal grururlag for or obligation ã give concessions. We have done this because we are primarily dedicated to satisfy customers ir¡ren reasonable limits. Complaints have continued, however, to require a completely unjustified rebate would essentially reduce the purchase price of his P85D lil price for a 85D, despite all the significant, real and obvious differences between these variant "ne. ' "

I would describe this as complete and utterly BS. I would like to see the documentation of such an offer, this is as true as 0-100 km/t in 3.3s without rollout

If they had done so, they would have included the documentation. If the offer was not something they would have publicly known, they would not have mentioned it at all. I know all the rhetoric tricks Tesla Nordic are using in this case.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

It is interesting to see how Tesla argue their case with "evidence" that the 0-100 time is not 0-100... Ommitting at the same time that it is not until several months later they actually inform the buyers that it is not actuall 0-100 but 5/6-100 ie with rollout a consept that is unheard of in europe.

They also ommitt that there were no reference to the R85 testing standard when these cars were orderd. It is also intersting to see that they have NO R85 certificate on 691 hp motor power enclosed... They only have independent R85 sertificates on each motor... They have combined the numbers on their own and used this combined nomber that is without backing in any testing standard in their marketing at that time...

This case will of course go the next step and the first that actully come up with a ruling i.e the forbrukertvistutvalget. This will not cost the owners anyting more than putting togeter the information they alredy have (and that tesla also provided an cross refence it to the marketing information at the time of ordering.)

Given teslas first position it will likely go to court if they will not accept the rouling against them in Forbrukertvistutvalget.

Whith regards to goodwill payments I have not heard of any recived that in norway but they may be subject to a NDA.

 

[Krugerrand]

Whith regards to goodwill payments I have not heard of any recived that in norway but they may be subject to a NDA.

Nobody said there were goodwill payments 'received' that I've read about. They said goodwill payments were 'offered', but that they were deemed insufficient by the complainants. Whether that's true or not, I don't have a clue. Until we see ALL (original) documentation regarding this situation, NONE of us here have a clue...including yourself.

It's always interesting how confident people can get about their own personal speculation without having all the details.

 

[kennybobby]

... They even had the vbox graph from Dragtimes that shows the time stating when the car is going 3 or 4 mph

Beware if using vbox graphs to show horsepower--they are using nautical miles of 6046 ft at equator rather than the regular 5280 ft mile in their calculations, which will generate higher hp numbers:
from Power, Torque and RPM Calculations - Racelogic

for example, HP = Weight (lbs) * Long Acc (g) * Speed channel (mph) * 0.003054

 

[redox]

Tesla only offered an amount less than that as a goodwill payment. The complainants are requesting the full difference between a 85D and P85D (no mention of similarly equipped), but Tesla disagreed given there are other differences between the 85D and P85D even ignoring the parts under dispute.

OK, in that case it's a pretty wide spectrum.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

Nobody said there were goodwill payments 'received' that I've read about. They said goodwill payments were 'offered', but that they were deemed insufficient by the complainants. Whether that's true or not, I don't have a clue. Until we see ALL (original) documentation regarding this situation, NONE of us here have a clue...including yourself.

It's always interesting how confident people can get about their own personal speculation without having all the details.

Interesting reply on what I actually was writing... What was my confident speculation here??

 

[Spidy]

The more I read this, the less I see how anyone involved in it, and Tesla apparently has the names of at least some of the complainants, as they indicate that they have been in direct contact with many of those who have complained, can ever expect to purchase another new Tesla from Tesla, no matter how this ultimately turns out.

It's not like anyone of those people will be able to afford that car anymore once the tax initiatives run out. It was a once in a lifetime chance to get such a powerful car. And even a Model 3 will be insanely expensive with the way the currency is going...

 

[Andyw2100]

It's not like anyone of those people will be able to afford that car anymore once the tax initiatives run out. It was a once in a lifetime chance to get such a powerful car.

You know this because you have access to the personal finance records of the 200 people involved, right?

 

[AWDtsla]

You know this because you have access to the personal finance records of the 200 people involved, right?

This is just statistics and probability, unless you're suggesting all Tesla buyers in Norway are fantastically rich and buying a Tesla is like buying a gallon of milk.

You double or triple the price of a large ticket item like that and most buyers will be priced out of the market.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is just statistics and probability, unless you're suggesting all Tesla buyers in Norway are fantastically rich and buying a Tesla is like buying a gallon of milk.

You double or triple the price of a large ticket item like that and most buyers will be priced out of the market.

I'm not sure about affordability, but I know that the exchange rate was very favorable for a time where the price was actually significantly less in Norway than in USA. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the tax incentives disappear like in Denmark.

 

[Andyw2100]

It's not like anyone of those people will be able to afford that car anymore once the tax initiatives run out. It was a once in a lifetime chance to get such a powerful car.

This is just statistics and probability, unless you're suggesting all Tesla buyers in Norway are fantastically rich and buying a Tesla is like buying a gallon of milk.

Yes, exactly, statistics and probability.

Spidy stated that none of the 200 Tesla owners involved would be able to afford the car in the future. I think that is a ridiculous statement to make.

I agree that the car will become more expensive, and perhaps many of those owners would not be able to afford the car if the price were doubled. But to say that none of the 200 would be able to is not a statistically sound statement.

 

[rns-e]

Beware if using vbox graphs to show horsepower--they are using nautical miles of 6046 ft at equator rather than the regular 5280 ft mile in their calculations, which will generate higher hp numbers:
from Power, Torque and RPM Calculations - Racelogic

for example, HP = Weight (lbs) * Long Acc (g) * Speed channel (mph) * 0.003054

I said nothing about hp. Tesla has inclosed a dragtimes vbox graph of a 0-60 mph acceleration using 1 foot rollout to document their claim of 3.3s without rollout for 0-100 km/h, and the graph shows that the when the timing starts the car is already traveling 3-4 mph

 

[mindsweeper]

Whith regards to goodwill payments I have not heard of any recived that in norway but they may be subject to a NDA.

Same here, not been approached by Tesla in any way or form suggesting a goodwill payment or otherwise mitigating action. I have not heard anyone else mention this in the forums we use. and I know for a fact that I am one of the very first of the 193 to both complain to Tesla and to Forbrukerrådet.

 

[yak-55]

I tend to agree with rns-e's characterization.

Perhaps it's lost in the (poor) translation (that I posted) but I don't see Tesla contributing any internal data (numbers, charts, etc.). I really wish they'd pony up some internal testing data rather than just pointing to external evaluations. Just providing internal testing alone -- even if found to be flawed -- shows they attempted to measure and have nothing to hide about how and what they measured. Not including any of it is... troubling.

Prudence (unfortunately) suggests that the Tesla lawyers, anticipating a potential legal challenge, have long since purged any such records within the company. This is a downside of all the warning they have gotten on this issue (or a motivation for their delaying tactics). They are well scrubbed and prepared for discovery. It will be documentation that originated at Tesla, but is now domiciled outside the company, (emails perhaps) that will prove damning in discovery.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Prudence (unfortunately) suggests that the Tesla lawyers, anticipating a potential legal challenge, have long since purged any such records within the company. This is a downside of all the warning they have gotten on this issue (or a motivation for their delaying tactics). They are well scrubbed and prepared for discovery. It will be documentation that originated at Tesla, but is now domiciled outside the company, (emails perhaps) that will prove damning in discovery.

Wow...this is just...in line with most of your other comments, I guess.

 

[kennybobby]

I said nothing about hp. Tesla has inclosed a dragtimes vbox graph of a 0-60 mph acceleration using 1 foot rollout to document their claim of 3.3s without rollout for 0-100 km/h, and the graph shows that the when the timing starts the car is already traveling 3-4 mph

Nothing personal intended, i wasn't implying that you said anything about hp, just making the observation that the vbox hp is based upon naut miles using 6046 ft/mile. Now that i think more it might be that their speed data is also suspect (and the time-to-speed data, etc.). May have to throw out all vbox-based results...?

 

[vgrinshpun]

I tend to agree with rns-e's characterization.

Perhaps it's lost in the (poor) translation (that I posted) but I don't see Tesla contributing any internal data (numbers, charts, etc.). I really wish they'd pony up some internal testing data rather than just pointing to external evaluations. Just providing internal testing alone -- even if found to be flawed -- shows they attempted to measure and have nothing to hide about how and what they measured. Not including any of it is... troubling.

In the letter Tesla did state that P85D was internally tested to have 0-100km/h time of 3.29seconds - on page 3 of the letter.

- - - Updated - - -

Prudence (unfortunately) suggests that the Tesla lawyers, anticipating a potential legal challenge, have long since purged any such records within the company. This is a downside of all the warning they have gotten on this issue (or a motivation for their delaying tactics). They are well scrubbed and prepared for discovery. It will be documentation that originated at Tesla, but is now domiciled outside the company, (emails perhaps) that will prove damning in discovery.

This is absolutely baseless statement, verifiable falsehood.

 

[Canuck]

Prudence (unfortunately) suggests that the Tesla lawyers, anticipating a potential legal challenge, have long since purged any such records within the company. This is a downside of all the warning they have gotten on this issue (or a motivation for their delaying tactics). They are well scrubbed and prepared for discovery. It will be documentation that originated at Tesla, but is now domiciled outside the company, (emails perhaps) that will prove damning in discovery.

How long did you work at Enron?

 

[bonnie]

Prudence (unfortunately) suggests that the Tesla lawyers, anticipating a potential legal challenge, have long since purged any such records within the company. This is a downside of all the warning they have gotten on this issue (or a motivation for their delaying tactics). They are well scrubbed and prepared for discovery. It will be documentation that originated at Tesla, but is now domiciled outside the company, (emails perhaps) that will prove damning in discovery.

How long did you work at Enron?

No kidding. Someone is watching too many movies. Destroying records outside of an established document retention/destruction policy is begging for trouble. Hello deposition? Yeah. That would not be fun. I've not met a company or lawyer willing to do such. I'm comfortable in stating that is not how Tesla would operate.

 

[cynix]

No kidding. Someone is watching too many movies. Destroying records outside of an established document retention/destruction policy is begging for trouble. Hello deposition? Yeah. That would not be fun. I've not met a company or lawyer willing to do such. I'm comfortable in stating that is not how Tesla would operate.

Hypothetically, if a company was to destroy records in such a way that nobody would know they ever existed in the first place, how could they get into trouble?

Not saying Tesla would ever do this, of course. I'm just curious since I have no knowledge in this area.