Put yourself in the position of a person serious about buying the car. Don't you think these points go without saying? Also, although my post that set all of this off is now a different thread, it's worth readying the original post before objecting to it. Please note that I offered that the buyer could be there on delivery day so would be hard to alter the car before that. As for selling the car voiding the warranty... hard to believe that could possibly be the case. But should someone buying a used car for $150,000 do their homework and be careful? Absolutely. Do you think they need that warning? Can't imagine so but I'm sure they'll appreciate the heads up. I don't think these warning are necessary in the least but I certainly don't object to them.
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Out of curiosity why did you create an email address just for this sale? Why not have complete transparency with potential buyers by listing at the very least your reservation number? It may scare away a lot of potential buyers having an anonymous email and no specific reservation information.
Because I wasn't interested in posting my permanent personal email address on an internet web forum. It's an invitation for a deluge of junk mail. I didn't even consider the vitriol that this thread elicited in making my decision but glad I chose to maintain my privacy. I don't feel that I owe this thread any more transparency. If I engage in an exchange with someone who shows interest, of course I would up the transparency with that individual in short order. Do people post their home address on dating sites? Why don't they if they want to elicit trust? I really feel like all of this falls into the category of being obvious. Why do people think that someone might be considering meeting me on a street corner with a bag of cash and a promise that I'll meet them back there next month with the car? Or that that's what I'm proposing? To everybody who's worried, you don't have to trust me (and clearly many suspect I'm a scammer to go along with my lack of morals and greediness-- because I posted my car for sale). Just trust that anyone interested in buying the car likely has an IQ above 70.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
lol this is silly... Very few people use their real name on a public forum. Are all the eBay sellers using aliases like "bobcat568" or "netseller" scammers too? No one attacking this guy is even interested in the sale, so no one here knows what communication with him regarding the sale would be like. However, a bit of common sense would lead one to conclude that once a buyer's authenticity has been established, they'd have to move on to more direct forms of communication. Especially seeing how the transfer would need to happen in person with real names on documents and no keyboards to hide behind (though that would make for an interesting encounter)
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Well, good luck to you. It's not an offer that would interest me in the least. I would not pay over list price for any car. But if someone wants to pay that much, it's their right. It will surprise me if you get that much, but I see that with two reservations, you'll end up with one car either way. And I'll bet you can find someone willing to pay a $5,000 or $10,000 premium.
Emotions run high when a highly desirable item is in limited supply. There was a great deal of anger back in 2004-5 against Toyota dealers that marked up the Prius or refused to sell them without expensive dealer add-ons. (I paid MSRP for exactly the color and configuration I wanted.) A lot of folks feel that it's unfair and unethical to profit from scarcity, but that's the basis of capitalism. Nobody gets rich by being nice, and all the folks who are angry at you had the same chance to reserve a car that you had. (I think the OP is angry mostly because he got a very early reservation, and then found out that he'll have to wait several extra months to get the configuration he wants.) But I don't have a dog in this fight. I have my Roadster, and no need or desire for an S.
Emotions run high when a highly desirable item is in limited supply. There was a great deal of anger back in 2004-5 against Toyota dealers that marked up the Prius or refused to sell them without expensive dealer add-ons. (I paid MSRP for exactly the color and configuration I wanted.) A lot of folks feel that it's unfair and unethical to profit from scarcity, but that's the basis of capitalism. Nobody gets rich by being nice, and all the folks who are angry at you had the same chance to reserve a car that you had. (I think the OP is angry mostly because he got a very early reservation, and then found out that he'll have to wait several extra months to get the configuration he wants.) But I don't have a dog in this fight. I have my Roadster, and no need or desire for an S.
Tommy
Member
I took another look at the past 9 pages of posts. I counted 3 posters that said some words that would have ruffled ones feathers; that's out of TMC's community of over 6000 members. Just as many if not more, wished the seller the best of luck. No one wants to be called names; however this isn't a case even remotely where the majority is piling on.
I have already voiced concern that a market with to many speculators distorts that market. Maybe this never happen with the market for the Tesla Model S. However, another very real concern is the consequence of selling these cars above MSRP as it pertains to the Fed and State Tax rebate for EV's. This can best be illustrated by the reaction of our legislators over the practice of a few Volt dealers trying to sell $5k to $10k over MSRP. Those wanting to eliminate the tax credit pointed to the fact that EV's could sell without the credit; a $50k markup would surely elicit an even stronger response. Eliminating the EV credit prematurely IMO would be bad for the overall adoption of EV's. Probably a few speculators will not be noticed, however some number x of speculators will draw the attention of our legislators. It would be ironic that because Tesla had a hot product on their hands, rebates were eliminated to the detriment of the EV community as a whole.
I have already voiced concern that a market with to many speculators distorts that market. Maybe this never happen with the market for the Tesla Model S. However, another very real concern is the consequence of selling these cars above MSRP as it pertains to the Fed and State Tax rebate for EV's. This can best be illustrated by the reaction of our legislators over the practice of a few Volt dealers trying to sell $5k to $10k over MSRP. Those wanting to eliminate the tax credit pointed to the fact that EV's could sell without the credit; a $50k markup would surely elicit an even stronger response. Eliminating the EV credit prematurely IMO would be bad for the overall adoption of EV's. Probably a few speculators will not be noticed, however some number x of speculators will draw the attention of our legislators. It would be ironic that because Tesla had a hot product on their hands, rebates were eliminated to the detriment of the EV community as a whole.
Tommy
Member
You won't see the reservation number because, regardless of Elon's off the cuff remark about selling your Model S, Tesla does not want speculators, middlemen, auto dealers between them and their customers. That's their business model and the poster fears Telsa will not sell to him/her if their intent was to sell the vehicle all along.
Tommy, it's not necessary or appropriate for you to state what I'm thinking as a fact instead of your guess. You stated that there were only three posters who have stated negative reactions out of the 6,000 in the community. That's the kind of statistic that makes people distrust statistics. Of the people who have posted n this thread, there have been more than three that have made negative statements. I do agree that a clear majority have stated (some emphatically) that they see nothing wrong with my choice to offer my car at the price I choose. I appreciate their support of me and of reason in general. And while only about three chose to be wildly rude and disrespectful, plenty searched high and low for logical reasons to back up the negative emotions they feel over this. I started counting the "reasons" that people have offered for why my decision to offer my car for sale is wrong. I lost count after 10. They include things like where I chose to offer it, how much I'm asking, bc it's a Sig, that I didn't include my email, that I could be a scam that will hurt the rep of this forum, it could affect future tax credits and best of all, that Elon Musk has a loan to payback.... that's less than half but you can pick up the count for yourself. Part of the reason I've been willing to respond is that I'm fascinated by this. Clearly it's provoked emotions. I get that and respect that this is the case. But I'm quite sure that nothing I've done here is wrong in any sense of the word. But no matter how many reasons I shoot down, somebody seems to come back with a different one. We all choose our beliefs based on emotion first and then try to back up those emotions with reason. Usually when those reasons just aren't there to support, we realize that and reluctantly change out minds. For those of you haven't yet settled on a reason why you don't like this, perhaps it's not necessary to keep searching. For those of you who do get it, I hope I sell my car for $200K so we can all drive our own Tesla's and say "I bought a $100K car but it's worth twice that!". And in the end, every boy and girl who wants a Model S and can afford to pay MSRP will be able to have one and will live happily ever after.
If someone reads this and is willing to pay $200,000 for it, there may be some much lower Signature numbers than might jump at that so feel free to post here and bump yourself up a few hundred spots. Free market after all. Anyway, best of luck on your investment.
Thanks for the kind words; I appreciate it! I do realize that most people here are rational and that all of them are excited about Tesla. Hopefully the fact that the others have fallen silent is a sign that reason (and a little peer pressure) finally won out over emotion. By the way, in the interest of transparency, I am male.
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jordanthompson
2018 P100D Model X
If RedSignature is able to get that kind of dough for his/her car, the value for every other signature is only going to increase. Instead of being upside-down when the car drives off the lot, these cars will actually increase in value. Of course this would only be temporary ;-)
I shook my head reading this thread, too. Some strong words there, coming from strong emotions. But where are the emotions from?
My guess is: In order to get a Model S Signature Reservation, you not only needed deep pockets. You needed faith. Years of faith. Faith in Elon really pulling this off. Faith in Tesla not to tank and sink your $40k deposit. Faith to plunk down cash even before final prices an options were announced, before you could test drive a Model S. Faith that driving an EV is the future, and would be a desirable thing to do in Summer 2012.
And now, here is an offer for anyone wealthy enough to bypass all that hassle and walk away with a shiny new Model S in the very month deliveries start. He pays a $50k markup, yes. But he hasn't paid that emotional dedication that most TMC forum members have put in this thing. And RedSig here is helping him along with that. I think that's what is raising the emotions.
Well, time to sober up.
My guess is: In order to get a Model S Signature Reservation, you not only needed deep pockets. You needed faith. Years of faith. Faith in Elon really pulling this off. Faith in Tesla not to tank and sink your $40k deposit. Faith to plunk down cash even before final prices an options were announced, before you could test drive a Model S. Faith that driving an EV is the future, and would be a desirable thing to do in Summer 2012.
And now, here is an offer for anyone wealthy enough to bypass all that hassle and walk away with a shiny new Model S in the very month deliveries start. He pays a $50k markup, yes. But he hasn't paid that emotional dedication that most TMC forum members have put in this thing. And RedSig here is helping him along with that. I think that's what is raising the emotions.
Well, time to sober up.
dhrivnak
Active Member
I have to admit I was initially put off by the concept. But then if someone would offer me $90,000 for my Roadster i would likely take the offer. My guess is we all likely have a price we would sell at. Mr. Red is just higher than most.
