Bought a model Y that I thought had clean title and found out it was salvage

[Hormold]

Just a quick update to this case.

After 2+ months after deal - I stuck in infinity loop between Tesla, Prime Sales and bank.
Tesla asks me to send recent title, managers in Prime Sales and Bank (Landbuzz) can not to do this for me. I can't get my title, tesla doesn't answer emails, I have no motivation to call and hang on the phone for hours (spoiler - 1-2 hour calls usually end up with nothing).

And more: Tesla stopped responding to any emails (Latest email from Tesla in attachments). I've lost all hope. I tried to contact lawyers, but no one wanted to take such a case.

You just looked at the case - how easy it is to lose 15 thousand USD (I think the price of the car, at best, has become cheaper by this amount).
Great start to my new life in the USA I don't know anything about justice in the United States, but it seems like a good case for lawyers.

PS. A funny story of my life: once a month, Tesla takes away access to Supercharger from me (19/20 day of the month). Last time it was for a couple of hours, now it's been gone for a couple of days. I think they are syncing the NVMTIS base these days and their "manual fix" is being turned off.

Conclusion: don't buy Teslas from auctions, ever. Even with clean title. on the day of purchase, download the NVMTIS report (free on carsforsales).

 

[exxxviii]

After 2+ months after deal - I stuck in infinity loop between Tesla, Prime Sales and bank.
Tesla asks me to send recent title, managers in Prime Sales and Bank (Landbuzz) can not to do this for me. I can't get my title, tesla doesn't answer emails, I have no motivation to call and hang on the phone for hours (spoiler - 1-2 hour calls usually end up with nothing).

This totally sucks and I wish I could offer up some more encouragement or ideas for next steps. Lendbuzz is the holder of truth for you that could solve this... if they would only send you a copy of the title. If they won't, then you are stuck. The frustrating thing is, that does not sound like an unreasonable request.

And thank you for posting the follow-up. I have genuinely been interested in the outcome and was rooting for you.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Just a quick update to this case.

After 2+ months after deal - I stuck in infinity loop between Tesla, Prime Sales and bank.
Tesla asks me to send recent title, managers in Prime Sales and Bank (Landbuzz) can not to do this for me. I can't get my title, tesla doesn't answer emails, I have no motivation to call and hang on the phone for hours (spoiler - 1-2 hour calls usually end up with nothing).

And more: Tesla stopped responding to any emails (Latest email from Tesla in attachments). I've lost all hope. I tried to contact lawyers, but no one wanted to take such a case.

You just looked at the case - how easy it is to lose 15 thousand USD (I think the price of the car, at best, has become cheaper by this amount).
Great start to my new life in the USA I don't know anything about justice in the United States, but it seems like a good case for lawyers.

PS. A funny story of my life: once a month, Tesla takes away access to Supercharger from me (19/20 day of the month). Last time it was for a couple of hours, now it's been gone for a couple of days. I think they are syncing the NVMTIS base these days and their "manual fix" is being turned off.

Conclusion: don't buy Teslas from auctions, ever. Even with clean title. on the day of purchase, download the NVMTIS report (free on carsforsales).
View attachment 967371

Sounds like you have a lender and because of that you will have to work with them to get a copy of the title. Unfortunately, without a copy of the title, Tesla would probably not work with you. They have to match it up to make sure it remains clean.

Have you tried asking the DMV directly to check title status and if you can get a copy?

 

[Hormold]

Sounds like you have a lender and because of that you will have to work with them to get a copy of the title. Unfortunately, without a copy of the title, Tesla would probably not work with you. They have to match it up to make sure it remains clean.

Have you tried asking the DMV directly to check title status and if you can get a copy?

DMV can only send a new copy of the title to the new legal owner (bank). I tried to contact Lendbuzz directly because the "friends inside the bank" of the Prime Sales managers can't help me. They send me some weird document called "Digital Copy of Title" that doesn't look like a legal document.

 

[stopcrazypp]

DMV can only send a new copy of the title to the new legal owner (bank).

You don't need a new copy, just a photocopy as evidence it is clean. Also you need to check if your car is marked as salvage or rebuilt in DMV (DMV might be able to give you that information at least).

I tried to contact Lendbuzz directly because the "friends inside the bank" of the Prime Sales managers can't help me. They send me some weird document called "Digital Copy of Title" that doesn't look like a legal document.

From a Google to find an example, here is how a California vehicle title looks like:

That's how mine looks like too.

If you car is rebuilt salvage it will say on the top right corner "salvage" or "salvaged" (as per left in below picture). If it is full salvage, it may be a salvage certificate (like on right in below picture).

 

[455dan]

my 2 cents.

If the title that is finally issued is marked salvage, I would retain a lawyer and go after the dealer especially after the representations made by said dealer you purchased from on one of the first few pages.
As others suggested undo the deal.

 

[Hormold]

So, all that they could send me was such a document.

Electronic Lien and Title Program - California DMV

DMV developed the Electronic Lien and Titling (ELT ) Program to keep California Certificates of Title in electronic format on our database (in place of paper titles).

www.dmv.ca.gov

Here is bank reply:
"We understand the concern here and are happy to provide you with a copy of the electronic title. Because the vehicle is titled in California, the title is held electronically, so that is why the PDF attached is called an ELT (electronic lien and title). There are no brands currently listed on this ELT, however, there is a note on the NMVTIS inquiry I pulled (national title and VIN search) showing that an insurance agency reported what looks to be a total loss on the vehicle on 4/25/2023. "

And the document attached here. So anyway, Tesla didn't answer me to any email

 

[455dan]

So, all that they could send me was such a document.

Electronic Lien and Title Program - California DMV

DMV developed the Electronic Lien and Titling (ELT ) Program to keep California Certificates of Title in electronic format on our database (in place of paper titles).

www.dmv.ca.gov

Here is bank reply:
"We understand the concern here and are happy to provide you with a copy of the electronic title. Because the vehicle is titled in California, the title is held electronically, so that is why the PDF attached is called an ELT (electronic lien and title). There are no brands currently listed on this ELT, however, there is a note on the NMVTIS inquiry I pulled (national title and VIN search) showing that an insurance agency reported what looks to be a total loss on the vehicle on 4/25/2023. "

And the document attached here. So anyway, Tesla didn't answer me to any email

Maybe I am looking at this wrong..., but I don't see what Tesla did wrong.

The dealer bought it from an auction house that sells damaged and totaled cars.

That same dealer advertised it as a One owner "CLEAN" title And with Both Factory warrantees remaining. You bought it from said dealer they are the ones that misrepresented the vehicle to You.

 

[exxxviii]

Maybe I am looking at this wrong..., but I don't see what Tesla did wrong.

The dealer bought it from an auction house that sells damaged and totaled cars.

That same dealer advertised it as a One owner "CLEAN" title And with Both Factory warrantees remaining. You bought it from said dealer they are the ones that misrepresented the vehicle to You.

We have hammered this ad nauseam in the posts above... Prime Sales is probably dirty.

Bought a model Y that I thought had clean title and found out it was salvage

Because that's their standard practice--they send most used cars off to auction/wholesalers because they don't have much interest in being a used car business. So where are all the cars that show up in their used inventory on website? Genuinely curious, was considering getting one someday...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[455dan]

We have hammered this ad nauseam in the posts above... Prime Sales is probably dirty.

Bought a model Y that I thought had clean title and found out it was salvage

Because that's their standard practice--they send most used cars off to auction/wholesalers because they don't have much interest in being a used car business. So where are all the cars that show up in their used inventory on website? Genuinely curious, was considering getting one someday...

teslamotorsclub.com

I guess I did read that excellent post earlier in the thread. Seems simple enough, the Op needs to go after Prime Sales.

Undo this deal get his money back and Fully Vet the next used Tesla purchase before money changes hands. Maybe buy from Tesla's own used inventory if they have something that will work.

 

[davewill]

Maybe I am looking at this wrong..., but I don't see what Tesla did wrong.

The dealer bought it from an auction house that sells damaged and totaled cars.

That same dealer advertised it as a One owner "CLEAN" title And with Both Factory warrantees remaining. You bought it from said dealer they are the ones that misrepresented the vehicle to You.

I guessing the OP got a really low price, and is desperately trying to keep his good deal by getting Tesla to change their mind (which they almost certainly won't) rather than unwind the deal. Or the dealer may have told him the origins of the car and sold it "as is" and he has no claim against them.

Of course, if the deal is THAT good, then he ought to go ahead and pay to have it inspected and recertified for Supercharger use.

 

[Hormold]

I guessing the OP got a really low price, and is desperately trying to keep his good deal by getting Tesla to change their mind (which they almost certainly won't) rather than unwind the deal. Or the dealer may have told him the origins of the car and sold it "as is" and he has no claim against them.

Of course, if the deal is THAT good, then he ought to go ahead and pay to have it inspected and recertified for Supercharger use.

Oh, no. I paid full price as for a normal clean Tesla with 20k miles. A little more 40k usd.
Because I bought "clean-title-under-warranty" car.

I bought this car on the 3rd week living in the US (I sold my Model 3 before moving to US).
And spent next two month with full-time on phone to solve this problem with Tesla/Prime Sales with no results.

I would never use such dealers if I had the opportunity to buy a car on lease directly from Tesla.
But when you come to the USA and want to take your first car, you have no credit rating and no bank is ready to give you a loan.
This is a big mistake, but I don't know who to turn to for legal help. For any requests to replace the car or cancel the deal - they just played for time and ignored my messages about this.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Maybe I am looking at this wrong..., but I don't see what Tesla did wrong.

The dealer bought it from an auction house that sells damaged and totaled cars.

That same dealer advertised it as a One owner "CLEAN" title And with Both Factory warrantees remaining. You bought it from said dealer they are the ones that misrepresented the vehicle to You.

The title appears to be clean though, it is not branded. From the history posted so far (it was only ever titled in California according to CarFax) it doesn't appear to be title washed either.

The actual title status is critical to the case, which is why I asked OP to verify with DMV what the actual current status is. If it is a clean title, it'll be a warranty dispute only, with the facts unclear on if Tesla has a legit reason to void it.

Lender said in the NMVTIS there appears to be a report of total loss declaration by an insurance company on 4/25/2023. However the CarFax only shows an rear accident report on 4/27/2023. So it's largely the NMVTIS that is the issue, and it's unclear if it was ever declared a total loss, given conflicting information.

If it was declared a total loss, it is the insurance company's responsibility to report it to the DMV within 10 days of doing so. If it was self insured, it is the previous owner's responsibility. This is where Tesla may bear some legal responsibility, if they were in fact the previous owner and self insured.

A lender being involved complicates things, given it wouldn't be possible to get a paper title to use with disputes with Tesla, especially now apparently them using e-titles (so they don't have a paper title either). Only after the car is paid off will DMV mail you a paper title. Others have had success disputing at least the supercharging with a copy of the clean title.

 

[Boston_Pilot]

My quick 2 cents. If you purchased a CarFax and an AutoChex, they both have clean title guarantees. Why aren’t you pursuing that avenue?

 

[stopcrazypp]

My quick 2 cents. If you purchased a CarFax and an AutoChex, they both have clean title guarantees. Why aren’t you pursuing that avenue?

The problem is it appears it DOES have a clean title (there are no brands on the title according to the report provided by his lender), just that Tesla is using a database that marks the car as salvage, which has consequences for supercharging and warranty.

 

[Boston_Pilot]

The problem is it appears it DOES have a clean title (there are no brands on the title according to the report provided by his lender), just that Tesla is using a database that marks the car as salvage, which has consequences for supercharging and warranty.

Ah, I misunderstood. Good luck…

 

[pikeman]

This sounds like fraud. Id begin by returning to the seller and very carefully explaining that you discovered this was fraudulent and want ALL your money back, NOW! You will probably be threatened, and refused so now get an attorney and notify your local DA of the transaction. The seller may skip to Albania, but you need to jump through some hoops to get the ball rolling. Talk to legal aid society too. They be very helpful.

 

[exxxviii]

This sounds like fraud. Id begin by returning to the seller and very carefully explaining that you discovered this was fraudulent and want ALL your money back, NOW! You will probably be threatened, and refused so now get an attorney and notify your local DA of the transaction. The seller may skip to Albania, but you need to jump through some hoops to get the ball rolling. Talk to legal aid society too. They be very helpful.

Dude. The thread started in June and the OP bought the car in May, four months ago, almost to the day. I highly recommend you read through every post in this thread.

 

[Hormold]

A Final Update
Too Long; Didn't Read (TL;DR): No warranty returned, but the car was thoroughly inspected by Tesla. Big thumbs up to Tesla for their support.

After a year of trying to get some clarity, I decided to reach out through some engineer contacts at Tesla to the right department, and I managed to get through. I connected with a fantastic guy named Aaron who helped me understand everything. Unfortunately, I didn't get the answers to what happened with my car as it's corporate secret and they can't disclose it. However, Tesla completely covered the cost of a High Voltage battery test and the inspection needed for Supercharger access. They were super courteous and communicative, and helped with everything they could without breaking corporate rules. Thanks Lake Forest service center!

Despite dealing with a large corporation like Tesla, the key takeaway from my experience is to thoroughly research and verify dealers before making any purchase. The dealership that sold me the car, Prime Sales, ended up closing down six months after my purchase, and some others fell for their "scam" (?) as well. (When I first arrived in the U.S., I didn't have a Social Security number yet and chose to deal with sellers who spoke my native language to make the process easier, which is why I didn't go directly to Tesla.)

Big thanks to Tesla and everyone who responded in this thread. My advice? Buy directly from Tesla and avoid dealers. That was my mistake, and I fully own it. I hope others can learn from this and steer clear of the bad guys.

P.S. For those interested in more details, either Tesla's insurance or Tesla itself recognized the car as "salvaged" while it still had a Clean Title, before it was put up for auction.

 

[exxxviii]

Great write-up. Thank you very much for that. Glad you are up and running.