Bought a model Y that I thought had clean title and found out it was salvage

[Mrbrock]

I think your confusion here is that you are assuming that I am assuming. And you are hung up on this concept of a salvage auction, when I am assuming (see what I did there) that you have no experience in the wholesale automobile industry. These are not assumptions:

• Going to market as a salvage auction is something very meaningful in the wholesale industry. It segments buyers and sellers and it defines the pricing for all of the cars in the lanes. A good car in a salvage auction would fall well short of its potential value. It would be very unusual for a seller to send a good car to a salvage auction.
• IAAI's blanket disclosure is explicitly telling every buyer to assume any car is salvage.
• There are not many possibilities - there are only a few. But the key piece of information we do not have, and will not have, is why did Tesla send seemingly good cars to a salvage auction.
• You are assuming it is fraud to sign a clear title if the car has an NMVTIS salvage record. You would have to ask the IAAI and DMV title clerks. In my experience, auction title clerks are on a first-name basis with state title clerks and are super-experts in title management. I don't know CA DMV, but it is possible that there is a direct path for title branding that auctions use because they do it in high volume.
• You are also assuming that a car with a salvage NMVTIS record must also have a salvage brand on the CA title. Seems odd to me too, but I am not going to assume that both are necessary. CA explicitly calls out NVMTIS as a legal requirement for dealers to show retail buyers.

See the last point in my post above. If @Hormold saw a signed title (but it is critical to remember, as @MP3Mike pointed out, that this title was not the new title issued by the DMV), then one of 4 things is likely:

1. The car was not meant for salvage and IAAI reported the salvage record to NMVTIS in error
2. The car was meant for salvage, and the IAAI sent the salvage processing paperwork to CA in parallel with IAAI signing the title over to Prime Sales
3. The car was meant for salvage, but the auction made a clerical error with the title
4. The car was meant for salvage and IAAI instructed Prime Sales to handle the salvage processing with CA

The key to all of this is to give the two affected people the best possible guidance in how to get to their best possible outcomes. So, giving them bad guidance and false faith could set them back. With the new (to me) info about Person #1's title, I advise that his best path is to go directly to the selling auction and ask them if the NMVTIS salvage record was reported in error, then depending on the answer, ask if the title is to be branded salvage. IAAI is the one source of truth in what happened or should have happened.

Before writing this note, I was be listening to and analyzing a recorded presentation of a company's title management and processing team to help them improve. They handle 10,000 titles a day for all 50 states + US territories. I am not a CA title expert, and we will not get into the weeds of each individual state, but I am familiar with this space.

I understand you know a lot more about this than me but you keep stating IAAI is a salvage auction company and that we should assume that any vehicle being put through their auctions has a salvaged title. Am I wrong in that being your main take away message? Because if so, the explain this:

Who are we to believe? IAAI or you? I take their disclosure to mean that because they handle a lot of (NOT ALL) salvage vehicles that sometimes the paperwork will show as salvage when it is not and that it is up to the buyer to verify with the seller, auction house and relevant state authorities to ensure the paperwork is processed correctly if the vehicle has a clean title.

Again, to my previous point, if Tesla wants to claim these as salvage, they need to do so before they go to auction and file the paperwork so the car has a salvage title at auction and is presented as such. It can’t have a clean title at auction then be changed to salvage after by the auction house on teslas behalf because they no longer can claim ownership and only owners or stakeholders can make this claim. This would be like listing a new item on eBay, using it and slightly damaging it while the auction is running then shipping it and telling the buyer that it is now used/damaged AFTER you took their money for a NEW item and it is their problem to deal with now since you don’t accept returns.

 

[exxxviii]

I understand you know a lot more about this...

Almost everything you just posted is false. This is not ad hominem: either you lack reading comprehension skills, or you are just trolling.

• FALSE: “You keep stating IAAI is a salvage auction company and that we should assume that any vehicle being put through their auctions has a salvaged title.”
  I repeated wrote that IAAI is known as a salvage by the type of inventory they predominantly run.
• WRONG: “Am I wrong in that being your main take away message?”
  I do not have one message, but if I summed it up, I would say IAAI reported the cars as salvage to NVMTIS for a reason. Find out why.
• CONFUSION: “Who are we to believe? IAAI or you?”
  Believe IAAI. Why did you ignore the first half of what they say they run? Look at their inventory on their North Hollywood auction. Read their investor relations summary “Specializing in Salvage, Damaged, High Mileage, Aged and Total Loss Vehicles.” Did you forget their blanket disclosure that tells every buyer to assume any car is salvage?
• JUST NO: “I take their disclosure to mean that because they handle a lot of (NOT ALL) salvage vehicles that sometimes the paperwork will show as salvage when it is not and that it is up to the buyer to verify with the seller, auction house and relevant state authorities to ensure the paperwork is processed correctly if the vehicle has a clean title.”
  A buyer cannot know before bidding and buying the status of a car in a wholesale auction. They solely rely on the general and specific auction disclosures. The title, CARFAX, AuthCheck, MNVTIS etc. reporting status may lag, and the buyer likely will not have access to the seller. The only thing the buyer will know is what the auctioneer reads to them in the 45 seconds the car is open for bidding.
• INCORRECT: “If Tesla wants to claim these as salvage, they need to do so before they go to auction and file the paperwork so the car has a salvage title at auction and is presented as such. It can’t have a clean title at auction then be changed to salvage after by the auction house on teslas behalf because they no longer can claim ownership and only owners or stakeholders can make this claim.”
  This is not remotely correct, and I described title processes at an auction multiple times. This is not like eBay. Buyers, sellers, and auction houses are all licensed and experienced professionals with a grounding set of rules that most understand. eBay is for amateurs.

I have failed as an instructor. I hang my head in shame as I must fail my student.

 

[MP3Mike]

Again, to my previous point, if Tesla wants to claim these as salvage, they need to do so before they go to auction and file the paperwork so the car has a salvage title at auction and is presented as such. It can’t have a clean title at auction then be changed to salvage after by the auction house on teslas behalf because they no longer can claim ownership and only owners or stakeholders can make this claim.

No, they don't have to get the title branded before they can sell the vehicle. (That could takes days, or months, and could cost them significantly.) They can file the paperwork at the same time. But the information provided at the auction should indicate that it is going to have a salvage title.

 

[Mrbrock]

No, they don't have to get the title branded before they can sell the vehicle. (That could takes days, or months, and could cost them significantly.) They can file the paperwork at the same time. But the information provided at the auction should indicate that it is going to have a salvage title.

Yes, they cannot provide a clean title to the buyer if they have submitted paperwork that is different.

 

[jjrandorin]

What is going on in this thread right now, is a couple of people arguing semantics, with someone who works in the actual industry with actual experience into how the actual workflow goes.

Its not much different than someone going into their doctor with some symptom or other, then when the doctor gives them their diagnosis, going on and on about "but I read on webmd that......"

This is leading to frustration on both sides (as that type of conversation tends to do).''

From a moderation perspective nothing has crossed the line, but there isnt much getting accomplished either, other than a bunch of back and forth in the mode of what I said above.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, they don't have to get the title branded before they can sell the vehicle. (That could takes days, or months, and could cost them significantly.) They can file the paperwork at the same time. But the information provided at the auction should indicate that it is going to have a salvage title.

I think the point is that when they signed over the title to Prime Sales, the title would need to be branded prior to that.

As per law:
"(e) Prior to the sale or disposal of a total loss salvage vehicle, the owner, owner's agent, or salvage pool, shall obtain a properly endorsed salvage certificate and deliver it to the purchaser within 10 days after payment in full for the salvage vehicle and shall also comply with Section 5900"

When the title is signed over, the new owner is now the owner. The law does not have an exception to allow former owners to brand the title retroactively. Sure, they can list the vehicle for sale before branding it, but I don't see how the title can turn over while remaining clean and then afterwards they change their minds and say it should be salvage (when they no longer own the car).

The history shows that by the time Prime Sales offered the car for sale (5/17/2023), it was well over 2 weeks after they bought it from IAAI (5/3/2023), so by the time OP bought the car, the time has well past even if IAAI submitted it at the same time, so OP should have seen the branding already when their got the new title.

I guess the only thing I would suggest OP @Hormold is to contact DMV ASAP to double check if there was not a title brand submitted afterwards. That would address the last remaining question. But I suppose OP is also working to get warranty restored at the same time (having had success with supercharger), which suggest having a clean title is a fairly strong point.

 

[stopcrazypp]

See the last point in my post above. If @Hormold saw a signed title (but it is critical to remember, as @MP3Mike pointed out, that this title was not the new title issued by the DMV), then one of 4 things is likely:

1. The car was not meant for salvage and IAAI reported the salvage record to NMVTIS in error
2. The car was meant for salvage, and the IAAI sent the salvage processing paperwork to CA in parallel with IAAI signing the title over to Prime Sales
3. The car was meant for salvage, but the auction made a clerical error with the title
4. The car was meant for salvage and IAAI instructed Prime Sales to handle the salvage processing with CA

#4 is impossible. As per law cited, the buyer is never responsible for assigning salvage for the vehicle. It has to be the insurance company or self-insurer or owner and it must be done prior to the sale (as per above cite).

 

[stopcrazypp]

What is going on in this thread right now, is a couple of people arguing semantics, with someone who works in the actual industry with actual experience into how the actual workflow goes.

Its not much different than someone going into their doctor with some symptom or other, then when the doctor gives them their diagnosis, going on and on about "but I read on webmd that......"

This is leading to frustration on both sides (as that type of conversation tends to do).''

From a moderation perspective nothing has crossed the line, but there isnt much getting accomplished either, other than a bunch of back and forth in the mode of what I said above.

This sounds a lot of like appeal to authority, especially when that authority is not familiar with the particular factors that apply to the OP (namely CA title law), and OP giving information and getting results that contradicts the initial "diagnosis". It's like a general family doctor commenting on a specialist field, usually they will disclaim that they are not familiar with that area (in this case he did), not to mention doctors can give wrong diagnosis also. In such case, everyone is commenting on the same foot (and thus need to argue on the facts of the matter, citing the sources, not just appeal to authority).

 

[stopcrazypp]

I get it... for some reason, you want Tesla to be the bad guy. But they are probably not, and that is a false faith that will not help these two car owners and others like them that come along. The information I have shared above is an abridged master class of wholesale automobile auction operations and the wholesale auto industry. I am happy to continue as long as we make progress, because I like this stuff.

I don't "want" Tesla to be the "bad" guy, I'm pointing out that either they made a mistake in their database which they can easily correct by updating it (which they have demonstratively done in the past), or they (or IAAI) violated the law, which also gives OP more leverage and more options.

The second case, IAAI violating the law gave the option of reversing the sale and IAAI agreeing to take back the car (only issue is compensation for work/repairs done afterwards, which is why that option was not taken).

 

[exxxviii]

I don't "want" Tesla to be the "bad" guy, I'm pointing out that either they made a mistake in their database which they can easily correct by updating it (which they have demonstratively done in the past), or they (or IAAI) violated the law, which also gives OP more leverage and more options.

The second case, IAAI violating the law gave the option of reversing the sale and IAAI agreeing to take back the car (only issue is compensation for work/repairs done afterwards, which is why that option was not taken).

This is all invalid deduction leading to poor guidance. You are trying to apply a portion of law you do not fully understand, and you do not know auction operations. I think you are looking at this through a narrow lens of a consumer transaction. But business-auction-business is different and has different rules. They are all licensed by the state and governed differently than consumer protection.

Continuing with the doctor analogy, your understanding, conclusions, and guidance are like a modern doctor prescribing bloodletting by leeches to cure a cold.

Hint, since you are bent on interpreting California law, you need to keep looking deeper. California has laws that govern auctions and dealers that grant exceptions to CVC, such as cars sold at auction to dealers. It is unclear to me when selling a salvaged car that the buying dealer cannot also be the one to brand the title. The auction is only required to give the dealer the certificate of title and registration if the car meets safety and equipment standards. So #4 could actually be possible.

 

[kpanda17]

At some point, us in this forum must agree to disagree

 

[adam2014]

I’m very sure that your car has clean title but in tesla system it shows salvage because the car was sold at the auction. Unfortunately that some of the Tesla dealerships are selling their cars at the auto auction when they got into an accident with a clean title so they sell them for more money but in their system they market them as a salvage so they could cancel the warranty!

 

[adam2014]

Can't believe this. I have the sama case. Bought from IAAI frist week of April and it was Clean title. Now Carfax it shows clean but Tesla says its Salvidged. Tomorrow I am going there again to see what is going on.

The car I bought is Model Y Long Range 2023. I will follow how is going with the other car. May be we have to file togather agains IAAI...

Lol, I’m in same situation I bought 2023 Tesla model Y clean title, in my case Tesla is the bad guy so far I got a proof from IAAI that Tesla dealer in Scottsdale Arizona sold the car through IAAI with clean title and after that Tesla report it in their system as a salvage! I have clean title, clean carfax Only in tesla system is salvage

 

[stopcrazypp]

Lol, I’m in same situation I bought 2023 Tesla model Y clean title, in my case Tesla is the bad guy so far I got a proof from IAAI that Tesla dealer in Scottsdale Arizona sold the car through IAAI with clean title and after that Tesla report it in their system as a salvage! I have clean title, clean carfax Only in tesla system is salvage

Did you get a response from an actual human at IAAI that confirmed that Tesla never intended to sell the vehicle as salvage but rather as clean? That was a dispute upthread. Not just talking of some paperwork that showed the car had a clean title at the time of sale, as upthread there were disputes of about the interpretation of that.

There was an update to the case you quoted, Tesla instructed IAAI to sell the car as salvage, but IAAI only processed the paperwork after the sale occurred.
Bought a model Y that I thought had clean title and found out it was salvage

Have you also checked the NMVTIS to see what it is listed as there? Did you check with the DMV to make sure the title didn't get updated after your sale?

 

[exxxviii]

My quick sta

Lol, I’m in same situation I bought 2023 Tesla model Y clean title, in my case Tesla is the bad guy so far I got a proof from IAAI that Tesla dealer in Scottsdale Arizona sold the car through IAAI with clean title and after that Tesla report it in their system as a salvage! I have clean title, clean carfax Only in tesla system is salvage

My quick questions to help sort out your options…

• First stop: look up your VIN o this link to see if you have an NMVTIS salvage record. VINCheck® Lookup | National Insurance Crime Bureau
• Did you buy the car from IAAI or through a used car dealer?
• If IAAI, are you a licensed dealer or was it a public auction?
• If IAAI who was the seller?
• If IAAI, can you ask them to show you the car’s announcements?
• If used car dealer, did they advertise it with a clean title and clean salvage history?
• Do you have your title that was reissued through the DMV?

 

[adam2014]

My quick sta

My quick questions to help sort out your options…

• First stop: look up your VIN o this link to see if you have an NMVTIS salvage record. VINCheck® Lookup | National Insurance Crime Bureau
• Did you buy the car from IAAI or through a used car dealer?
• If IAAI, are you a licensed dealer or was it a public auction?
• If IAAI who was the seller?
• If IAAI, can you ask them to show you the car’s announcements?
• If used car dealer, did they advertise it with a clean title and clean salvage history?
• Do you have your title that was reissued through the DMV?

We purchased a Tesla model Y from IAA with clear title. MVD issued a clean title, seller’s tesla insurance and carfax also indicate clean title, NMVTIS confirmed its clean title. However, Tesla report a salvage record on their system, so they canceled the warranty and SC as well! The vehicle has only 250 miles on it.

 

[jjrandorin]

We purchased a Tesla model Y from IAA with clear title. MVD issued a clean title, seller’s tesla insurance and carfax also indicate clean title, NMVTIS confirmed its clean title. However, Tesla report a salvage record on their system, so they canceled the warranty and SC as well! The vehicle has only 250 miles on it.

We are not going back around in circles on this, as this discussion has already been covered (extensively) in this thread, including the statements from IAAI on their website about state of title.

Please refer to the previous discussion points in this thread.

 

[exxxviii]

We purchased a Tesla model Y from IAA with clear title. MVD issued a clean title, seller’s tesla insurance and carfax also indicate clean title, NMVTIS confirmed its clean title. However, Tesla report a salvage record on their system, so they canceled the warranty and SC as well! The vehicle has only 250 miles on it.

So, if NMVTIS is clear, all the other documentation are clear, and IAAI did not have any salvage announcements, then it is probably a Tesla admin issue in their database.

You mention "seller's tesla insurance and Carfax..." Was the seller not Tesla? If not, then it passed through another set of hands between tesla and you in which something could have happened that got Tesla's attention.

 

[adam2014]

So, if NMVTIS is clear, all the other documentation are clear, and IAAI did not have any salvage announcements, then it is probably a Tesla admin issue in their database.

You mention "seller's tesla insurance and Carfax..." Was the seller not Tesla? If not, then it passed through another set of hands between tesla and you in which something could have happened that got Tesla's attention.

In some cases Tesla has their own insurance, in my situation, IAA confirmed to me that Tesla sent them the car with clean title to be sold through them as clean title, now IAAI is contacting tesla dealer to resolve the issue but Tesla hasn’t not responded yet.

 

[exxxviii]

In some cases Tesla has their own insurance, in my situation, IAA confirmed to me that Tesla sent them the car with clean title to be sold through them as clean title, now IAAI is contacting tesla dealer to resolve the issue but Tesla hasn’t not responded yet.

That is key info... You should be able to get that worked.