Battery Degradation Experiences

[MdlSP100D'16]

Hello All!

So I am receiving my MSP100D, August 2016 build, 95k miles tomorrow. I have read on here tons of the threads about battery failure and the exorbitant costs associated with replacement. I have also read the average of about 10% degradation at 100k miles (not a problem for us) and about 15k for 200k miles. I have looked, and maybe missed, total battery failure numbers [if they even are published] as a percent of totals. As in, for every 250,000 100kwh batteries produced, 1,000 will fail. Or whatever numbers. Thus, my question for the forum is [ESPECIALLY those around this year and model and battery pack] what have been your experiences? Total failures? 5, 10, 15, 20% degradation? Still operating wonderfully? Any stories would be great! Thanks in advance!

EDIT: For addtl background, was originally owned as personal vehicle, averaged about 8k/year miles. Last four years approx 18k/year miles as a fleet vehicle.

 

[ucmndd]

My 2016 S75 is on its original battery at 174,000 miles. It’s lost about 15% rated range from new.

 

[byeLT4]

2017 P100D was at 12.7% range loss when I traded it in at 89,476 miles.

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

My 2016 S75 is on its original battery at 174,000 miles. It’s lost about 15% rated range from new.

Ahhhhh that is what I want to hear hahaha. Thanks for sharing!

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

2017 P100D was at 12.7% range loss when I traded it in at 89,476 miles.

Ahh great! I am fine with the 10-15% range loss. 95% of my driving is within 10 miles. Work takes me a couple times a week 50 miles round trip and they have charging stations at the office.

 

[SneepeZ]

2016.5 75D with about 10% loss. 230-234 Miles at 100%. No battery or charging issues (knock on wood) and still on the original battery pack. I will definitely be picking up an XCare 3rd party battery and drive unit warranty before my Tesla warranty expires. It's $3,892 for 7 years/150k Miles with a $500 deductible.

 

[kg7jo-]

2016.12 75D with 70k miles currently at 9% loss.

 

[SneepeZ]

2016.5 75D with about 10% loss. 230-234 Miles at 100%. No battery or charging issues (knock on wood) and still on the original battery pack. I will definitely be picking up an XCare 3rd party battery and drive unit warranty before my Tesla warranty expires. It's $3,892 for 7 years/150k Miles with a $500 deductible.

Forgot to state 77K miles

 

[PCMc]

I don't think you'll be able to find any credible numbers for what the overall replacement percentage is for batteries. No one really has access to that information other than Tesla and I'm not aware they've ever published it.

For reference, I have a 90 pack, build was about 2 months prior to when your car was built (you stated in other thread your's is 8/2016, my MS90D is 6/2016). I'm at about 8.5% apparent degradation over 73k miles.

Note that it's not just odometer that's significant. Battery degradation is a factor of both time and what's know as throughput, which is the total energy flow into and out of the pack. Mileage is a common surrogate for throughput and something easy to quote, but it's the the full story. There also are factors around usage history, namely how many times has the battery been run to very low SOC conditions for example.

Enjoy your car.

 

[houstonian]

@ucmndd - I thought the first 100's delivered in mid 2017?

Distinctly remember the three choices circa Q3 2016 for the S were:

• 60 (locked 70/75 pack)
• 75
• 90

Also recall much chatter about trying to get a unicorn where the car had FUSC but delivered with a 100 pack in 2017.

@MdlSP100D'16 - you may want to double check the paperwork as I don't think any Tesla were delivered in 2016 with a 100 pack. Quite possible you're getting a 2016 with a 100 pack put in since delivery but if my timing is accurate, somthing's not reconciling.

7 years later what is your 100% on your 85kWh battery?

You can probably just compare % range loss, regardless of US/EU. You should see the similar % losses, regardless of the drive cycle used for range calculation. I wouldn't look at non-85's, since smaller batteries may be more stressed/more loss, and larger (specifically the 90's) use a...

teslamotorsclub.com

75D battery degradation

What's your max Supercharging rate in kW? I hit 105 for a few minutes today (I was at 22% at the time). 2018 75D 22K

teslamotorsclub.com

Edited to add - looks like Tesla did indeed announce the 100's in 2016 but I recall think they only delivered starting in 2017?

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

@ucmndd - I thought the first 100's delivered in mid 2017?

Distinctly remember the three choices circa Q3 2016 for the S were:

• 60 (locked 70/75 pack)
• 75
• 90

Also recall much chatter about trying to get a unicorn where the car had FUSC but delivered with a 100 pack in 2017.

@MdlSP100D'16 - you may want to double check the paperwork as I don't think any Tesla were delivered in 2016 with a 100 pack. Quite possible you're getting a 2016 with a 100 pack put in since delivery but if my timing is accurate, somthing's not reconciling.

7 years later what is your 100% on your 85kWh battery?

You can probably just compare % range loss, regardless of US/EU. You should see the similar % losses, regardless of the drive cycle used for range calculation. I wouldn't look at non-85's, since smaller batteries may be more stressed/more loss, and larger (specifically the 90's) use a...

teslamotorsclub.com

75D battery degradation

What's your max Supercharging rate in kW? I hit 105 for a few minutes today (I was at 22% at the time). 2018 75D 22K

teslamotorsclub.com

Edited to add - looks like Tesla did indeed announce the 100's in 2016 but I recall think they only delivered starting in 2017?

It is funny because almost every freaking tire website I go to doesn't list it either. BUT, it was a 8/16 build. I'm not sure when delivery took place [first carfax update was at about 11k miles in Oct. 2017. Technically I think it is considered a 2016.5 build haha. Here is the manuf. label:

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

Also, I plugged in the VIN on Teslas website to check for any recalls and it popped out that is was a Model S 2016 Build!

 

[ucmndd]

@ucmndd - I thought the first 100's delivered in mid 2017?

P100D announced in August 2016.

Regular 100Ds weren’t available until 2017. I seem to recall there were some delivered in 2016.

New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World | Tesla

www.tesla.com

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

P100D announced in August 2016.

Regular 100Ds weren’t available until 2017. I seem to recall there were some delivered in 2016.

New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World | Tesla

www.tesla.com

It'd be pretty neat if it turned out mine ended up being the first one produced lmao. I know it is a P100D and it has every upgrade package you could have bought at the time--even the seven seater upgrade. Maybe the vehicle's first owner was an insider at Tesla. It says on the label Manf. 8/16. And has the P100D labeling. It is MCU1 and AP 1 [I plan on getting MCU2 next week]. I'm not sure when the original owner first took delivery of it but I know it was manufactured in Aug. and came with everything that was an option at that time. I'm so excited to receive it. I have wanted a Tesla since they first came out and even though this has 95k miles I think it might be a unicorn I found!

 

[PCMc]

I'm not sure when the original owner first took delivery of it but I know it was manufactured in Aug. and came with everything that was an option at that time.

You should be able to see in your owners account information on warranty. This will list when the 8 year battery warranty expires, which will be 8 years from date when sold to first owner. So short of have a full title history, that's the easiest way to tell when it first went into service. The service center should also be able to confirm for you what their system shows for date the warranty ends.

 

[MdlSP100D'16]

You should be able to see in your owners account information on warranty. This will list when the 8 year battery warranty expires, which will be 8 years from date when sold to first owner. So short of have a full title history, that's the easiest way to tell when it first went into service. The service center should also be able to confirm for you what their system shows for date the warranty ends.

Ahhh awesome! I was thinking tesla would be able to tell me anything and everything when I take the vehicle. I'm hoping an MCU2 upgrade won't take too long and they can get me in quickly. They FINALLY opened a service center in Louisville, KY which I am sure is nowhere near as busy as the one in Cincinnati. The Louisville one is only about an hour away so that'd be much easier than the Cinci one! I was reading on here and it seems there are a few people who were able to get P100Ds in August of 16. But just a small handful from what it sounds like. I'd love to know how many were produced because I, unfortunately, missed the AP2 hardware window which I believe started in October of that year--and they only announced the P100D in the last week of August.

 

[ResHacker]

85D upgraded to 100kWh, the battery now has approx 80k miles, diag showing 90,5 kWh usable, therefore degradation somewhere around 7%, car report is oscillating around 303 miles. Still performs great in that car.

 

[tesluv108]

2016 sold date p90d. 5% degradation at 9k miles

 

[AAKEE]

I don't think you'll be able to find any credible numbers for what the overall replacement percentage is for batteries. No one really has access to that information other than Tesla and I'm not aware they've ever published it.

I have seen data online about percentage of swapped batteries on different EV’s including Tesla. But the absolute main part in early battery life have to be other failures from hardware like the BMS or mouist intrusion etc.

I think we see a number of batteries getting old and causing fault codes right now on the forum on model S out of warranty that probably is degradation related.

Note that it's not just odometer that's significant. Battery degradation is a factor of both time and what's know as throughput, which is the total energy flow into and out of the pack. Mileage is a common surrogate for throughput and something easy to quote, but it's the the full story.

Initially, for the first five or eight years or so, the calendar aging/ age is the (very) dominating factor in degradation.
High SOC wear more and higher temperature wear more.

The cycles counted in throughput is usually referes as Full Cylcles Equivalent (FCE) in the research. It is more to it than the throughput or FCE.
Larger cycles wear more.
Cycles positioned at high SOC wear more.

Small cycles at low SOC generally gives the best throughput or number of FCE’s.

There also are factors around usage history, namely how many times has the battery been run to very low SOC conditions for example.

Low SOC in the regime where we normalky can use the car (0% displayed and up) do not cause increased wear.
It is the high SOC part of a cycle that is causing increased wear.

The research with Panasonic 18650 NCA cells show us that they can do about 700 cycles from 100-0% (4.20V - 2.5V/cell) with the current or C-load comparable to a highway driven car before the cells lost 25% capacity.

Thats 700 cycles from 100% displayed until the car stops and can not drive.
This would be about 700x400km = 280K km on the average model S, or 175K miles.
This test is of course performed in a short timeline, would take about 7-9 months to complrte the test so not much calendar aging.

If the charge level was reduced to about 90% (4.1V) but still down to 0%, we get 850 FCE cycles (so about 950 single cycles) and if reduced to 80% we get about 1000 FCE (so about 1250 single cycles)

This is consistent with more or less all research. There is a lot of research showing the same thing.

This picture shows same type of cells cycled between 0% and different SOC,

3.7V = about 50%
3.8V = about 60%
3.9V = about 70%
4.0V = about 80%
4.1V = about 90%
4.2V = 100%

We can see that the low part of the cycle is not the bad part.
The lower the cycle is positioned, the lower the wear.

Pictures from This report, a good read covering the most parts and aspects.
That report is in line with litterally hundred other reports, so not just one of a kind.

 

[jtlpowersports]

85D upgraded to 100kWh, the battery now has approx 80k miles, diag showing 90,5 kWh usable, therefore degradation somewhere around 7%, car report is oscillating around 303 miles. Still performs great in that car.

Did you DIY this? Looking to do the same on my car with a used 100kwh pack