Barebone $35,000 Features

[docherf]

Will the base model be front or rear wheel drive?

 

[vjason]

I assume the AC does more than just cool the passengers; it is crucial to battery temperature management (and as a result the car design).

I get what you are saying, but I think the equivalent of the AC in a Tesla is the radiator in an ICE vehicle. Passive cooling isn't enough, even if it never climbed above 50 where you live. And those radiators often cool the transmission as well.

I think the most fascinating conundrum for Tesla concerns SpC access, as well as it demonstrably being the most contentious topic on this forum. The sides are easy to describe:

*on the one, there is the cost of including a DC-direct charger, cost of life-of-vehicle electricity provided by Tesla, cost of buildout of the SpC network to service a Model 3-enhanced fleet.

*on the other, there is the ever-repeated goal of EV-ing the planet, with the less-announced but obvious corollary of reducing the elitist image - and reality - of the high-priced Models S&X fleet.

I don't know the answer, but I certainly hope and expect Messrs Musk & Co. to have penciled out in responsible fashion the cost-benefit analysis and annual CapEx needed to effect the "Do Include" option; to state the obvious, the highest cost there would be the needed site build-out but on the other hand, would that also raise the cost of each car by $100? $1,000? $10,000?

Now, to demonstrate what this consumer considers to be a base Model 3....I wonder how much cost and manufacturing complexity including A/C adds to a vehicle. That is an unnecessary for an Alaskan vehicle, although those living in the 'hot' plains of Fairbanks would grizzle at how it would discomfit them for about six weeks out of a year. I also am old enough to remember the jokes told about "those Floridians" who would drive about Miami summers with their windows rolled up just so their fellow drivers wouldn't know they didn't opt for that "expensive" add-on...

...'course, if y'allz moved up to Alaska to avoid the heat...well, I guess I'd have to move on over to Siberia. Or Antarctica....

 

[gregincal]

Will the base model be front or rear wheel drive?

You'll find out on March 31st. I think a majority of people on this forum believe it will be rear wheel drive.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Stock wheels will likely be smaller than 19. An A4 (which EM mentioned as a competitor, and likely a good comparison size-wise) comes with 17's, and you can upgrade to 18's and 19's.

Smaller wheels=lighter=will help the smallest-battery variant hit that magical "200" that is being promised.

 

[rcarpen22]

I'm normally a fan of fully specced "lower" cars than entry level "upper" cars. I think a same price Model 3 will outperform and out-feature a 70D (0-60 in 5.2, no premium interior, no autopilot, etc.).

I tend to agree. I'm going to reserve one and see how I feel about it closer to production. Also, my wife's lease runs out pretty close to when the M3 is supposed to arrive. Might go ahead and double up.

 

[4SUPER9]

I found two more:
16) No heated seats
17) No internet radio (slacker, spotify, tunein)

 

[tga]

I found two more:
16) No heated seats
17) No internet radio (slacker, spotify, tunein)

Heated seats are pretty cheap, and help improve range (heating your seat uses a lot less energy than heating the cabin). I've installed aftermarket seat heaters in the past, and they only drew ~35W.

I expect the base car won't include free internet. There will be an LTE radio, but you'll have to pay for service. Wifi will be included for updates in your garage, or pairing with your phone for internet access on the road.

 

[AudubonB]

I think, vjason, that you are conflating the battery management system with that of the cab/occupants. They are, of course, both heating/cooling, but there's no reason to link them. For reality's make, however, I'd be the first to be astonished if a 21st century vehicle didn't have a/c as standard.

It has been quite a revelation, however, to learn tga's point: how far much more efficient it is to convey "warmth" to a passenger by using conductive seat heating than it is via convective air heating. Right there is one incredible and (for me....and I'll bet 99.9% of the rest of those who gave it a thought) unanticipated difference between EVs and ICEd cars, which have all that waste heat that must be conveyed away from those terribly inefficient engines.

 

[GregRF]

I can't figure out how Tesla can cut down cost by half from basic S70 model, except it should be a bona ride bare bone: a body with a battery and a motor and 4 wheels, every thing else would cost extra, starting with AC. Definitely no free super charger access.

Trying to cut down costs makes it harder to see. I think it is easier to compare with other large volume cars. I think its a pretty close comparison to say

$ ICE Components = $ EV Components - $ Battery

So for now an EV will cost roughly the battery pack more than an equivalent ICE. From the rough estimates we've seen for battery costs I assume the model 3 battery pack will be ~$10k.

So the base model 3 will be the equivalent to $25k ICE cars in rough quality of interior and finish.

But on top of these we have a few extra things going for the Model 3:

• EVs with large batteries have inherent higher performance potential
• Skateboard allows more radical design
• Skateboard allows more available volume (storage/passenger)
• Skateboard has low center of gravity for better handling
• Good designer who isn't trying to protect other model lines with crappier design
• Mostly electronic controls gives more features for same money
• Trickle down tech from S and X (versus legacy components from other cheap cars)

So as you can guess from my thoughts above, I think we'll see a pretty compelling car for $35k. But parts that aren't inherently superior in EV will add equivalent costs in options (leather, paint, sound, trim, sun roof, wheels)

 

[Red Sage]

If you compare the specifications for a base Toyota Camry LE to a base BMW 320i, they are relatively similar. Expect the base Tesla Model ≡ to be equipped in a manner that falls in line with those cars. There will be options, options packages, and trim levels for certain. But none of them will turn it into a Buick, Cadillac, Lexus, or Mercedes-Benz luxoboat. It will be... a Tesla. Hence, beautiful, sporty, with utility, cargo space, in a spartan, but not substandard interior environment that befits a modern Premium vehicle.

 

[Tam]

Will the base model be front or rear wheel drive?

That depends on which would cut the cost and also which would be better functionally.

For ICE, FWD does cut the cost because you don't have to connect a front engine to a long driveshaft to the rear-axle gears.

For Tesla, you don't have a driveshaft either way so I don't see how FWD would be more cost efficient.

- - - Updated - - -

17) No internet radio (slacker, spotify, tunein)

Thanks, 4Super9.

That makes sense for cost containment.

It's possible to start to charge for monthly internet service too.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That depends on which would cut the cost and also which would be better functionally.

For ICE, FWD does cut the cost because you don't have to connect a front engine to a long driveshaft to the rear-axle gears.

For Tesla, you don't have a driveshaft either way so I don't see how FWD would be more cost efficient.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks, 4Super9.

That makes sense for cost containment.

It's possible to start to charge for monthly internet service too.

Monthly internet service: My instinct here is that Tesla signs a deal with a mobile carrier and let's them handle the data subscription piece.

My A3 has an AT+T SIM card and I pay them for my internet. I can see Tesla cutting a similar deal, especially for the volume they're anticipating.

My guess is that the Model 3 will have AT+T or T-Mobile. (Verizon's network technology is different and would make modems in cars not very cost effective).

 

[Tam]

I assume the AC does more than just cool the passengers.

True! Cooling for battery pack is included, but Tesla can charge extra to enable the cooling for human, can't it

 

[tga]

My guess is that the Model 3 will have AT+T or T-Mobile. (Verizon's network technology is different and would make modems in cars not very cost effective).

How is Verizon's LTE different than T-mobile or AT&T's?

Personally, I'd prefer Big Red. Pink and blue are pretty much non-existent in most of NH. Verizon can hold a call on all of i89. Nobody else can.

 

[4SUPER9]

How is Verizon's LTE different than T-mobile or AT&T's?

Personally, I'd prefer Big Red. Pink and blue are pretty much non-existent in most of NH. Verizon can hold a call on all of i89. Nobody else can.

Different radios. Vz and Sprint are CDMA. AT&T is GSM.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

How is Verizon's LTE different than T-mobile or AT&T's?

Personally, I'd prefer Big Red. Pink and blue are pretty much non-existent in most of NH. Verizon can hold a call on all of i89. Nobody else can.

Verizon uses CDMA. It's a more complex setup, modem/data-wise, which is why their phone selection isn't always the best.

I have a Verizon phone and AT+T data in the car.

I'd prefer Verizon, but I don't think they've ever done a data partnership with a car company.


The 2 major 4G/LTE offering car companies right now (Audi and GM) use AT&T.

 

[1208]

In order to get that price way down got to go beyond what is suggested. Here...

16) No Alloy wheels, steel with hubcaps instead. ✔
17) Unfoldable rear seats ✔
18) No aircon. ✔
19) No dashboard. Driving visuals to appear on touchscreen. ✔
20) Touchscreen to be 5ins. ✔
21) Body half the size of the S to reduce costs.✔
22) Body made out of plastic as its cheaper than Aluminium and steel. ✔
23) 2 doors (excluding trunk).✔
24) 14ins wheels.✔

 

[GregRF]

I'm hoping for the option of simple phone tethering.

 

[vinnie97]

In order to get that price way down got to go beyond what is suggested. Here...

17) Unfoldable rear seats ✔

Even cheap subcompacts have this.

18) No aircon. ✔

Great Britain is one thing, that would be a nonstarter in the states.

23) 2 doors (excluding trunk).✔

Many of these omissions/reductions will destroy the appeal even if it is "only" a $35k base product.

 

[gregincal]

In order to get that price way down got to go beyond what is suggested. Here...

16) No Alloy wheels, steel with hubcaps instead. ✔
17) Unfoldable rear seats ✔
18) No aircon. ✔
19) No dashboard. Driving visuals to appear on touchscreen. ✔
20) Touchscreen to be 5ins. ✔
21) Body half the size of the S to reduce costs.✔
22) Body made out of plastic as its cheaper than Aluminium and steel. ✔
23) 2 doors (excluding trunk).✔
24) 14ins wheels.✔

Sorry, but we are talking about a car starting at 35K meant to compete with other cars starting around 35K like the BMW 3 series and Audi A4. They are not trying to make a budget sub-compact.