FirebirdAlpha
Member
Good point. Where do you follow Tesla's bond prices?
TESLA INC.DL-NOTES 2017(17/25) REG.S Bond | Markets Insider
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Good point. Where do you follow Tesla's bond prices?
You're exactly correct.How? How does a collapse of the share price cause the collapse of the company?
From my perspective, the collapse of the company causes the collapse of the share price.
The share price is supposed to represent the value of the company.
You're exactly correct.
Short-sellers are simply placing a bet that the stock will go down, not up. They're not necessarily betting on the company to fail. They made money if they shorted near recent highs and covered near recent lows.
The company's ultimate success or failure has everything to do with its finances, not the buyers/sellers of its stock.
Well it works the other way. Tesla opening configuration for all reservation holders fed a bunch of call options and a price spike before the month end. However it did not represent anything which is why the price crashed back down below where it was before that happened.
Sudden changes in equity prices rarely have anything to do with fundamentals. It’s quite hard for an individual company to shock the market in the absence of an M&A or some huge drop in revenue that was unforeseen. That’s not going to happen with Tesla for years, if at all.
Bonds however are a different story. Prince changes in bonds (int he absence of a base rate change) ALWAYS are to do with fundamentals. Rather than discussing TSLA, this forum might want to spend some time looking at Tesla’s bond prices (hint they’re falling).
Bonds however are a different story. Prince changes in bonds (int he absence of a base rate change) ALWAYS are to do with fundamentals.
IMHO... Short sellers are the very definition of evil. This applies to every short seller who is betting on any company to fail... How in the world do you sleep at night knowing you're actively participating in trying to kill a company that employs people who have mortgages and families to feed? That statement isn't exclusive to Tesla either...
Perhaps YOU are not, but saboteurs like Martin Tripp essentially are actively trying to cause Tesla to fail. As are the stock manipulators who spread lies about SolarCity's financial situation. As Chanos & company tried to cause Fairfax Financial to fail.Because I'm not the cause of that. I'm not going out and burning down a Tesla factory, am I?
Well, I'd appreciate an explanation.
My understanding of how capitalism works:
So, how does a declining share price cause a company's failure?
- Company issues shares to get money. Competitive market determines the value of those initial shares.
- Competitive capital markets trade those shares.
- If the company's value rises, the share price rises.
- If the company's value falls, the share price falls.
Let's say Tesla's share price drops to $230 tomorrow. How does that cause them to go bankrupt?
I couldn't possibly disagree more with your post. In the case of Tesla shorts are ABSOLUTELY betting on the company to fail, they want it to fail, they want to enact some odd sense of revenge against Elon/Tesla.
Jeff
Exactly how would shorting Peabody stock cause it to fail?While I agree with you that wanting Tesla to fail is pretty immoral...
I want Peabody Coal to fail. I don't care about the coal miners' mortgages and families, the coal mining is destroying the biosphere and threatening all our lives. Would you have a moral problem with short-selling Peabody Coal? Because I wouldn't. It would be good to force them to fail and harm their employees. Let them get honest livelihoods rather than livelihoods which are actively hurting other people.
Or they simply think the stock is waaaaay overvalued and is due to come back down to earth.
When you look at profit earnings of other auto manufacturers compared to their stock price, can't blame that logic.
You can't be this willfully obtuse. You're pretending to be this dumb. The goal of the Chanos types is to *prevent Tesla from refinancing its bonds*, thus causing it to go bankrupt. That's what they tried to do with Fairfax and with SolarCity.
While I agree with you that wanting Tesla to fail is pretty immoral...
I want Peabody Coal to fail. I don't care about the coal miners' mortgages and families, the coal mining is destroying the biosphere and threatening all our lives. Would you have a moral problem with short-selling Peabody Coal? Because I wouldn't. It would be good to force them to fail and harm their employees. Let them get honest livelihoods rather than livelihoods which are actively hurting other people.
Hey guys!
I am back from my temp ban!
I am sure everyone is as happy to see me as I am to see them. Special thanks for the kind words from @Ocelot and @luvb2b (proj thread, great thread everyone should read btw) and others that made nice or supportive comments.
Anyways, I had some time to think during my ban, and I realized that this section is a tough section to moderate. So in a way I think giving me a temp ban was good, even if the reasoning was a bit hazy (reason given was that i spread misinformation, but no exact example, i admit sometimes i am wrong but i dont come here to spread lies on purpose, either way, water under the bridge).
I think Moderating shorts here is not easy, and you basically have to decide if a short is adding value to the forum or not (i think longs dont have to meet that requirement because it IS a Tesla forum, an acceptable double standard imo). If a short isnt adding value to the forum then i can see why mods would want to eliminate that person. @YasB and @CuriousSunbird are good shorts, but they tone it WAAAAAY back imo.
So with that said, my goal going forward is to only challenge objective thoughts and not get into subjective arguments where both sides clearly are not changing their mind. I will also stop calling Elon mean names because that isnt productive.
With all that said, I really do think this place is full of people who have the right idea (sustainable future, clean energy, etc), so I do value everyone's opinion, I just hope that people understand that shorts, like myself, are not against that idea just because we are against this company. I really do want everyone to take all information with a skeptics eye no matter which side you are on, and i think shorts can add value to the forum in that sense. You love with your heart, but you invest with your brain, mixing the two might not be the best idea.
Anyways, i hope to have constructive communication going forward and look forward productive debates with limited to zero mudslinging.
Or you could just you know... Leave... Words can't even begin to describe the visceral emotional hate I have towards people like you who are actively betting Tesla will fail... Then on top of that you post this ridiculous crap about "this place is full of people who the right idea"... Please... You don't care any more about the environment, sustainable transport, etc, than you do the assembly line worker with a mortgage and a family to feed. You just want to win, at all costs.
Jeff
See this isnt true, or isnt fully true.
I DO want sustainable future, lower carbon emissions and all the things that Tesla states in its mission. In a way I WANT Tesla to succeed in that mission. The issue is I dont believe their business model is a viable one, or at the very laest is a severely over valued one.
You seem very emotional about this and I think thats great from a motivational standpoint, and I am sure you are a good person. However can I ask you a question.
People here on TMC who are long, sell stocks all the time. Are they also rooting for Tesla to fail? Or are they ok because it was a stock they already owned and they are just 'trading'?
Do you even know what being long means? Are you sure you are not referring to traders?People here on TMC who are long, sell stocks all the time. Are they also rooting for Tesla to fail? Or are they ok because it was a stock they already owned and they are just 'trading'?
Being "long" (stocks, options, etc.) simply means having a purchased position. It doesn't necessarily imply a future expectation.Do you even know what being long means? Are you sure you are not referring to traders?