AWD Test Mule

[wycolo]

Tesla website is schizoid re: AWD. Near the top of the X page AWD is referred to as 'optional' yet on the bottom both configurations 'offered' are AWD.

And apparently TM has settled on the front motor being half-sized '50% additional torque'.

In North America shoppers will view this as a Car; no way as an SUV or Crossover. Guys will mutter: "Where's the ground clearance?" and women will shrug: "Where's the riding height (visibility) that I get from an SUV/Crossover?" So it will end up being a 'minivan crossover', a new niche of some sort.
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[JRP3]

I'd expect it to be around the height of a RAV4 or similar SUV, so I wouldn't call that a new niche.

 

[AnOutsider]

Fairly similar height to our Q5 I think. Q5 probably has a few inches more ground clearance, but with air suspension, this should be doable.

 

[PatP]

Yes I think it matters. Elon might not care, but investors would. Not only that, the company isn't sitting pretty either; they can't afford to waste money in R&D on a product that misses sales marks and doesn't recoup the investment.

No matter how idealistic leadership may (at least appear to) be, it's still a business. They can get away with the whole "we won't make a profit on service" thing because #1 they're not losing money and #2 it's building customer loyalty, which brings in more sales (either repeat or word of mouth).

I agree that this isn't even likely to be an issue however, as I think the market is there for both -- I just don't think they'd be "OK" with S sales doubling and X sales tanking.

I don't understand this canibalizing issue. If you buy an Audi S4 are you canibalizing the Audi Q5?

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Many of my friends don't want an SUV but they want an AWD Sedan. So, they're waiting to buy the AWD S. Why do I need to buy an SUV if I want AWD? Every luxury car maker now offers AWD sedans. So basically, Tesla is loosing sales not having an AWD S. Nothing to do with the X.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

I don't understand this canibalizing issue. If you buy an Audi S4 are you canibalizing the Audi Q5?

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Many of my friends don't want an SUV but they want an AWD Sedan. So, they're waiting to buy the AWD S. Why do I need to buy an SUV if I want AWD? Every luxury car maker now offers AWD sedans. So basically, Tesla is loosing sales not having an AWD S. Nothing to do with the X.

+ 1

 

[stevezzzz]

Thought experiment: imagine Tesla begins making and selling an AWD Model S and an AWD Model X at the same time with pricing that fairly represents the differences in manufacturing costs, performance and feature sets. If they sell more of one than the other, it's because more people want it. Fair enough, I say: let the market decide.

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't understand this canibalizing issue. If you buy an Audi S4 are you canibalizing the Audi Q5?

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Many of my friends don't want an SUV but they want an AWD Sedan. So, they're waiting to buy the AWD S. Why do I need to buy an SUV if I want AWD? Every luxury car maker now offers AWD sedans. So basically, Tesla is loosing sales not having an AWD S. Nothing to do with the X.

I'm not sure either of your examples work here.

Firstly, on the Audi example, no they don't compete, but they also aren't Audi's only models. More on that in a moment.

On the idea of people wanting a sedan over an suv, that's an absolutely valid claim... Except that's not what we are discussing. That wouldn't be a cannibalization scenario.

If you read up, what we (or at least I) have been discussing was tesla putting AWD in the S BEFORE the X came out leading those who wanted the S and AWD to "settle" for the S since its available NOW.

On your Audi example, both models are freely available now, so someone wanting one over the other has no real barrier, where the X is not currently available so someone might jump into an S if it has something the X was slated to have, only a year beforehand. No, it's not going to matter to someone who actually wants the SUV, but that's not what the topic is about.

 

[PatP]

I'm not sure either of your examples work here.

Firstly, on the Audi example, no they don't compete, but they also aren't Audi's only models. More on that in a moment.

On the idea of people wanting a sedan over an suv, that's an absolutely valid claim... Except that's not what we are discussing. That wouldn't be a cannibalization scenario.

If you read up, what we (or at least I) have been discussing was tesla putting AWD in the S BEFORE the X came out leading those who wanted the S and AWD to "settle" for the S since its available NOW.

On your Audi example, both models are freely available now, so someone wanting one over the other has no real barrier, where the X is not currently available so someone might jump into an S if it has something the X was slated to have, only a year beforehand. No, it's not going to matter to someone who actually wants the SUV, but that's not what the topic is about.

I totally understand your point but I don't see how this could negatively impact Tesla. The X / AWD S canibalization has been a debate for a long time. Anyhow I need an AWD S!

 

[Alysashley79]

I also thought I would need an AWD vehicle because we live on the side of a mountain and for about 4 months a year we will have anywhere from six inches to five feet of snow on the ground. I have to ascend from sea level to 2100' to get to my house in the winter and the MS with proper studs (nokians haakas R7's) run all the way up to my house. I feel more confident in my MS than I did in my Fx4 F250 or my honda pilot 4x4. Just out of curiosity why how many of you that ate waiting for the AWD or feel the need it have driven the MS in snow?

I don't believe that putting the two vehicles out at the same time would hurt the sales of one or the other. You are always going to have the families that needs more seats and while the jump seats are fabulous they only will last for so long and then the kids will literally outgrow them while the MX will always be a 7 seater no matter how big or how old the kids get. These things will come down to a matter of opinion just like wheels color or heck even suspension. The car in my opinion is gorgeous and hot. The SUV is interesting with the falcon wing doors but I don't think I'd ever call it gorgeous or hot I don't care how fast it goes. Just my honest opinion.

 

[abasile]

Just out of curiosity why how many of you that ate waiting for the AWD or feel the need it have driven the MS in snow?

For driving purposes, we don't need AWD. The current RWD 'S' would meet our snow driving needs.

However, in the California mountains where we live, the authorities require snow chains/cables on 2WD (but not AWD) vehicles whenever there's any snow on the highway, even an inch or two, no matter how good one's tires are. There are "chain control" checkpoints. Once I got a ticket for driving our Prius without chains. Thankfully, I fought the ticket and won, but still. It's insane.

So, for Californians who drive in the mountains in winter, having AWD is the way to avoid chain requirements.

 

[Todd Burch]

RE cannibalization of sales: does it really matter? Does anyone see Tesla being anything other than production constrained for the next few years? I don't. If there were that much demand for the AWD S prior to X production, the AWD S would quickly develop a waiting list, and suddenly the AWD S won't be available before the X anymore, because of the waiting list.

 

[JRP3]

Good point.

 

[brianman]

Thought experiment: imagine Tesla begins making and selling an AWD Model S and an AWD Model X at the same time with pricing that fairly represents the differences in manufacturing costs, performance and feature sets. If they sell more of one than the other, it's because more people want it. Fair enough, I say: let the market decide.

"Competition is good."
"Competition within your own tent can also be good."

 

[stevezzzz]

"Competition is good."
"Competition within your own tent can also be good."

Choice is good, too.

 

[LuckyLuke]

TM just posted this small vid on instagram:
http://instagram.com/p/lDYxGjwJ-x/

And this words:

Coming soon...
Stay tuned for the full video!

Official announcement in the works?

 

[AnOutsider]

TM just posted this small vid on instagram:
http://instagram.com/p/lDYxGjwJ-x/

And this words:


Official announcement in the works?

Hmm, could be... but if you weren't expecting an AWD Model S (like we are), how would you get/interpret that from that short clip?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Hmm, could be... but if you weren't expecting an AWD Model S (like we are), how would you get/interpret that from that short clip?

The same. How can you infer that it is an AWD Model S in this video?

 

[Kraken]

I am no expert, but the wheel spin looks similar in the cold weather video.

 

[100thMonkey]

I am no expert, but the wheel spin looks similar in the cold weather video.

I see what you mean. I don't even want/need AWD on the S and i'm excited for it... in part to see if they have worked out all the bugs before having to commit to the Model X, which I definitely want in AWD, assuming they figure out a livable fully functional roof rack work around or normal/suicide door option.

come to think of it, it would be an awfully disappointing tease if this were not the precursor to AWD roll out, would be a PR mistake, IMHO, to find out the video was just another "look at how great the S is in the snow" video.

 

[Kraken]

I see what you mean. I don't even want/need AWD on the S and i'm excited for it... in part to see if they have worked out all the bugs before having to commit to the Model X, which I definitely want in AWD, assuming they figure out a livable fully functional roof rack work around or normal/suicide door option.

come to think of it, it would be an awfully disappointing tease if this were not the precursor to AWD roll out, would be a PR mistake, IMHO, to find out the video was just another "look at how great the S is in the snow" video.

ha... That would be a bad tease, but if it is for something completely different, they probably didnt even have the fact that it was a tease on their radar.