Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Autopilot Questions, Experiences, Problems, Concerns

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
#21
What do you feel is missing from the hardware package for switching lanes autonomously?

I'm thinking that the current cars should eventually be able to handle a complete freeway drive from on ramp to off ramp, including all necessary lane changes based on Nav data (ignoring any potential issues with weather or road construction.)

You're certainly right that the current cars can't address cross traffic in any of the possible environments. If they'd added side looking cameras as well, they might have enough sensors to eventually do it all...
Walter
 
#22
brkaus said:
It wasn't clear to me if that was for dramatic effect- "look ma, no hands" - or it was the intended use.

It seems to me that keeping your hands on your lap, armrests, etc would add significant time to react. That, perhaps, would put liability back on Tesla.
Click to expand...
Do you keep your foot on the pedal when using cruise control normally? probably not. this is no different, and the time required would be no more than the time to get your foot to the brake pedal from normal cruise control. The whole point of "auto-pilot" is so that you don't have to hold the wheel, just like the point of cruise control is that you don't have to hold the pedal. In fact, if designed properly, turning the wheel would disengage the auto-pilot just as touching the brake disengages normal cruise control. As for liability... this was settled long ago with normal cruise control, the manufacturer isn't liable if the driver fails to take appropriate action in a system where the company has reiterated over and over again that this is not a self driving vehicle and that you must pay attention.

- - - Updated - - -

Saghost said:
What do you feel is missing from the hardware package for switching lanes autonomously?
Click to expand...
It does not appear that there's enough range on the rear sensors to detect a fast moving vehicle in the next lane at an appropriate distance. The ultrasonic sensors are limited to 18ft and the rear camera isn't desigend for long range either. Additionally there's really nothing pointing backward that wouldn't be obscured by a tailgater behind you while you're trying.

As long as it only changes lanes at your prompting (the current promised setup) this is not an issue as you are responsible for checking your mirrors first, however for full autonomy it's a bit of a limitation.
 
#23
green1 said:
Do you keep your foot on the pedal when using cruise control normally? probably not. this is no different, and the time required would be no more than the time to get your foot to the brake pedal from normal cruise control. The whole point of "auto-pilot" is so that you don't have to hold the wheel, just like the point of cruise control is that you don't have to hold the pedal. In fact, if designed properly, turning the wheel would disengage the auto-pilot just as touching the brake disengages normal cruise control. As for liability... this was settled long ago with normal cruise control, the manufacturer isn't liable if the driver fails to take appropriate action in a system where the company has reiterated over and over again that this is not a self driving vehicle and that you must pay attention.
Click to expand...

Yes but adding in steer-control moves past a very significant hurdle, where the driver is no longer placing any input into the vehicle. With cruise control the driver still has to be engaged and paying attention to driving/lane keeping. If you automate that the driver is no longer engaged, and will divert attention from driving.

It is a lot easier to take control of the accelerator pedal if you are actively keeping your lane, and seamlessly take control. If the driver is not engaged in the driving act, it would be like switching a movie directly into Forza and asking the person to grab the controller in front of them an start driving. It takes time to recognize where you are, where obstacles are, what other people are doing, how fast you are going, how fast other things are going, where you need to go, and everything else you keep tabs (even if only very slight tabs) on while driving.

Taking mandatory driver attention away (by taking away all of their inputs) is a huge leap. The electronics need to be robust, and able to handle quick acting situations properly. As getting a driver up to speed will take 3-5 seconds minimum.
 
#24
ElSupreme said:
As getting a driver up to speed will take 3-5 seconds minimum.
Click to expand...
Sorry, no. there's no "getting up to speed" you always were paying attention, right? it's your legal responsibility to do so. All distracted driving legislation still applies, and Tesla and Elon himself have been EXTREMELY clear that you MUST pay attention at all times and that this is a better cruise control, and NOT self driving.

My biggest worry is that some idiot will do as you recommend and stop paying attention, sue tesla, and ruin this for the rest of us.
 
#27
The ultrasonics certainly aren't up to the task of finding that fast moving car overtaking you. However, I was thinking that the high definition rear video camera would be sufficient if they ran object detection against it. All it has to do is recognize an object in the target lane with a high closure rate.

Tailgaters are a potential issue, but the easy answer is to not allow the system to change lanes when it can't see far enough back - and really I think you'd have to get into stop and go before a car is close enough to be an issue.
Walter
 
#28
Saghost said:
The ultrasonics certainly aren't up to the task of finding that fast moving car overtaking you. However, I was thinking that the high definition rear video camera would be sufficient if they ran object detection against it. All it has to do is recognize an object in the target lane with a high closure rate.

Tailgaters are a potential issue, but the easy answer is to not allow the system to change lanes when it can't see far enough back - and really I think you'd have to get into stop and go before a car is close enough to be an issue.
Walter
Click to expand...
I don't have a tesla (yet) but I have driven other vehicles with backup cameras, none of them are capable of seeing far enough back to be helpful in this task, especially in the next lane over. Maybe tesla has a different rear view? Try it some time for yourself to see how well it sees, I'd be surprised if it was enough to make a safe decision.
 
#29
physicsfita said:
I would sincerely hope the programmers would have done sanity checks against the fact that it is higher than the highest speed limits in the US and against the fact that it is five times the most recent speed limit stored in the GPS database.
Click to expand...

LOL so I was right! We already have one case where the speed assist read a 35mph sign as 85mph as it was spray painted to make the 3 an 8 and the system adjusted accordingly to 85mph! Prank road sign fools Speed Assist.
 
#31
My worry with all of the autopilot stuff is that something will cause a serious delay in it being available, either legal or otherwise. If they have not already figured out all of the legal ramifications of making this available, they should not be selling cars "with autopilot" as an advertised option.
 
#32
wk057 said:
My worry with all of the autopilot stuff is that something will cause a serious delay in it being available, either legal or otherwise. If they have not already figured out all of the legal ramifications of making this available, they should not be selling cars "with autopilot" as an advertised option.
Click to expand...
Let's break down what the promises are, and the legal status of each:
- Follow lane markings and stay in your own lane on the highway - Already on other vehicles, no legal issue.
- Adjust speed to account for other vehicles on the roadway, including coming to a complete stop - Already on other vehicles, no legal issue.
- Adjust speed automatically to match traffic signs - Unsure, but it's hard to come up with a legal argument against this one.
- Lane change automatically at an input from the driver - From a legal stand point I doubt this would be any different than things like automatic parallel parking available on other vehicles, as long as the driver has to initiate it, there should be no legal issue.
- Park and retrieve vehicle automatically on private property - From a legal stand point, as this is not on public roads, there's no issue. From a technical stand point... I suspect this one will be a long time coming.

I really don't see a legal issue with anything that has been promised to date. The auto-parking/retrieval are technically very challenging though, so they may take some time.
 
#33
green1 said:
- Lane change automatically at an input from the driver - From a legal stand point I doubt this would be any different than things like automatic parallel parking available on other vehicles, as long as the driver has to initiate it, there should be no legal issue.
Click to expand...

This is a tricky one. The CA DMV guidelines dictate that you should signal for five seconds before changing lanes on a freeway. So if you push the lever to initiate a lane change and the autopilot starts merging immediately, that violates the DMV guideline. But instead, if the car waits five seconds before merging, then it's unlikely the driver will be looking in the side-view mirror at precisely the moment the car starts to merge. If a fast car is closing quickly from behind in the target lane, neither the Tesla driver nor the autopilot is likely to see it in time to avoid a collision. And since the fast car has the right of way, the collision will be Tesla's fault. (and/or its driver.)

I sent an email to JB with this concern, but no response. Perhaps the rear-view camera feed would be good enough to detect such scenarios and abort the lane change, but Tesla hasn't made any mention of the rear camera being part of the autopilot system.
 
#34
I'm curious about the overall legal implications of all these autopilot features. Telsa's warranty will cover a braking system failure that causes an accident....will it also cover the self parking feature if it drives my car through my garage door? Are these features "warranty-able" the same way the other operational system in the car are?
 
#35
Pardon my very very poor diagram... But I was curious about the auto-park and I'm just too lazy to pull up a proper drawing tool right now...

I have a side entry garage with a narrow driveway. I park two cars in the garage and mine gets backed in tight to the back corner (the box marked "C" in the diagram). This leaves plenty of room for spouse to park in the second spot. I have marks on the floor and park about 6" off the wall. Is there any chance auto-park could do this? Where I pull the car straight in the driveway and it handles backing into the spot? I would be happy to glue down whatever markers it may need to help it along :)


driveway.jpg
 
#37
green1 said:
- Park and retrieve vehicle automatically on private property - From a legal stand point, as this is not on public roads, there's no issue.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of your points except this one. As I posted in another thread:

"Generally, statutory traffic regulations or rules of the road have no application to traffic on private ways or premises. However, this principle has often been qualified to hold that such traffic regulations or rules are applicable to private ways or premises used generally by the public for travel."
Traffic Signs Posted on Private Property :: Quick and Dirty Tips â„¢

I agree with you that: "The auto-parking/retrieval are technically very challenging though, so they may take some time." in my opinion, the talk about this is more hype than substance. It likely will happen but probably not for another 5 years, and probably more likely in the next decade, and new hardware may be required to meet that potential. I really hope I'm proven wrong, but reading the experts on this issue, it seems we are much further away from solving many key problems with self-driving technology than many people think:

Google’s Self-Driving Cars Still Face Many Obstacles | MIT Technology Review

- - - Updated - - -

R²B said:
I'm curious about the overall legal implications of all these autopilot features. Telsa's warranty will cover a braking system failure that causes an accident....will it also cover the self parking feature if it drives my car through my garage door? Are these features "warranty-able" the same way the other operational system in the car are?
Click to expand...

Hopefully, Tesla will step up to the plate and pay if their logs show it was their fault, but we all know when Toyota vehicles suddenly accelerated it became convenient for some people to blame their own fault on the vehicle. So each claim will likely be determined on its own facts and the Courts will rule on any claims that are not resolved between the parties.
 
#38
Is the Mobileye partnership speculation or confirmed?

commasign said:
It's not actually Tesla developing the auto-pilot. It's MobilEye:

Mobileye Automated Driving - YouTube

The Mobileye Features. - YouTube

Tesla is in a unique position to rollout these features over time via software updates making them the ideal partner for MobilEye.
Click to expand...

- - - Updated - - -

Answered my own question.

The company's prospectus lists Tesla, Audi, BMW, GM, Mitsubishi, Volvo and several other automakers as partners, and the Israeli press has reported that Mobileye and Tesla have teamed up on driverless cars.
"We also think it is probable that Tesla is working with Mobileye on driverless automation in its vehicles," said Andrea James of Dougherty & Co. in a recent note.



"We can simply confirm that we have a business relationship with them," Simon Sproule, Tesla's VP of Communications, said in response to an email asking how to best characterize the relationship. "Nothing further to add."






http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26258044/tesla-partner-mobileye-valued-at-more-than-5


mattreidy said:
Is the Mobileye partnership speculation or confirmed?
Click to expand...
 
#40
My Model S lacks all these new features but I have questions nevertheless. They can be boiled down to this:

Will this new set of features work in detect & alert mode ONLY if that's what the driver wanted?

Personally, I have zero interest in autopilot, less than zero interest in autonomous vehicles, but TREMENDOUS interest in Elon's so-called "safety cocoon" that surrounds the car. I want all the sensors on and working and alerting me to issues. But I will take it from there.

Soooo. The big question is, will Tesla let drivers be drivers, even extremely well-informed drivers, or is Tesla going Apple's "we know what's best for you" route and forcing you to use autopilot when all you want are the sensors?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Neural Network Autopilot
Replies
6
Views
325
AI, Autopilot, & Autonomous/FSD
JulienW
JulienW
J
2018 Model 3 with Enhanced Autopilot does not lane change
Replies
5
Views
552
Model 3: User Interface
nicksp
N
R
FSD free trial. Very impressed. So better than Autopilot
Replies
18
Views
592
AI, Autopilot, & Autonomous/FSD
rjpjnk
R
hybridbear
Autopilot/FSD Pedestrian Accident
Replies
22
Views
1K
AI, Autopilot, & Autonomous/FSD
azred
A
M
Autopilot vs FSD
Replies
16
Views
1K
AI, Autopilot, & Autonomous/FSD
CMPT PAD
C
Top
Back
Blog
New
Forum list
Marketplace
Menu