Autopilot vs FSD

[mcswing]

Hey guys, relatively new owner of 23MYLR. So, I've been using FSD for a couple of months now and I've been playing around with the settings as I should be. I wanted to ask if more experienced folks on here could clear up Autopilot vs FSD terminology for me.

- If I do a single pull on my right stalk, I enter TACC. That is denoted by the blue MAX and the car brakes and speeds up as needed. I am in control of the steering.
- If I've purchased FSD and I do a double-pull, I'm in FSD (denoted by blue steering wheel). Does this mean I will never utilize Autopilot features and I can ignore all the instructions in the manual that talk about Autopilot stuff (i.e. Navigate on Autopilot, using the right steering button to change follow distance, being able to deny lane changes)? The reason why I ask is I read all these instructions that don't exist in my MYLR and I'm assuming this means that FSD software is just going to be different from Autopilot. So, when I read anything regarding Autopilot settings, I need to disregard those since they don't apply to me? Or have you folks found that certain instructions do apply to both in your experience?
- I know I can change to a single pull Autopilot/FSD in my settings but I am not entirely comfortable with v11 of FSD so I prefer to drive TACC sometimes (plus the wife entered FSD accidentally one time w/ single pull and did not like it at all).

I've been following Tesla for a long time but now that I have my hands on an actual Tesla, I just want to understand from more experienced owners how to differentiate features of Autopilot vs. FSD. IMO, unless I'm missing something, Tesla's instructions are not really clear on the differences between settings for one vs the other.

Thanks everyone in advance.

 

[ewoodrick]

While may one think that FSD and AutoPilot are two versions of the same software, from history we know that they are two different stacks.

So yes, the options are different between the two, especially follow distance, which doesn't exist in FSD. Turn FSD off and it comes back.
As to what applies, there really isn't a huge amount of difference from the driver's perspective. Except that FSD is just better at the things that autopilot does.

I dare you to pry FSD from my wife's car.

 

[Supcom]

Hey guys, relatively new owner of 23MYLR. So, I've been using FSD for a couple of months now and I've been playing around with the settings as I should be. I wanted to ask if more experienced folks on here could clear up Autopilot vs FSD terminology for me.

- If I do a single pull on my right stalk, I enter TACC. That is denoted by the blue MAX and the car brakes and speeds up as needed. I am in control of the steering.
- If I've purchased FSD and I do a double-pull, I'm in FSD (denoted by blue steering wheel). Does this mean I will never utilize Autopilot features and I can ignore all the instructions in the manual that talk about Autopilot stuff (i.e. Navigate on Autopilot, using the right steering button to change follow distance, being able to deny lane changes)? The reason why I ask is I read all these instructions that don't exist in my MYLR and I'm assuming this means that FSD software is just going to be different from Autopilot. So, when I read anything regarding Autopilot settings, I need to disregard those since they don't apply to me? Or have you folks found that certain instructions do apply to both in your experience?
- I know I can change to a single pull Autopilot/FSD in my settings but I am not entirely comfortable with v11 of FSD so I prefer to drive TACC sometimes (plus the wife entered FSD accidentally one time w/ single pull and did not like it at all).

I've been following Tesla for a long time but now that I have my hands on an actual Tesla, I just want to understand from more experienced owners how to differentiate features of Autopilot vs. FSD. IMO, unless I'm missing something, Tesla's instructions are not really clear on the differences between settings for one vs the other.

Thanks everyone in advance.

To answer your question, if you have the City Streets FSD enabled in the Autopilot menu, then you cannot use the basic Autosteer or Navigate on Autopilot. These become inaccessible to you unless you disable City streets FSD. Any maunal instructions relating to basic Autosteer or Navigate on Autopilot do not apply.

 

[mcswing]

While may one think that FSD and AutoPilot are two versions of the same software, from history we know that they are two different stacks.

So yes, the options are different between the two, especially follow distance, which doesn't exist in FSD. Turn FSD off and it comes back.
As to what applies, there really isn't a huge amount of difference from the driver's perspective. Except that FSD is just better at the things that autopilot does.

I dare you to pry FSD from my wife's car.

Helpful. Thank you.

PS: I think wife is a in-closet Tesla fan (it's mainly her car anyway). Trying to convert her to FSD fan too. lol.

 

[mcswing]

To answer your question, if you have the City Streets FSD enabled in the Autopilot menu, then you cannot use the basic Autosteer or Navigate on Autopilot. These become inaccessible to you unless you disable City streets FSD. Any maunal instructions relating to basic Autosteer or Navigate on Autopilot do not apply.

Thanks Supcom. I will take a look for that in the settings and see what it does. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[ewoodrick]

Helpful. Thank you.

PS: I think wife is a in-closet Tesla fan (it's mainly her car anyway). Trying to convert her to FSD fan too. lol.

It helps to slowly break someone in to FSD. We've been on differing versions for over 6 years and have slowly learned it.

My recommendation. Start where you know the least problems exist. Find routes that have few issues and let her watch you drive them.

My wife knows where she can and can't trust FSD and she will disable it.
For example, a few months ago, I was letting FSD do it's thing and noticed that it came up to a postman's truck stopped om the side of the road, that the car moved over and passed. And then another time, the car saw oncoming traffic and stopped and waited for the road to clear and then moved halfway into the oncoming lane and passed the postman. After her watching this happen with me driving, she's started trusting it, where previously she would disable.

It's a learning curve, just as it is to trust your teenagers to drive.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I've been following Tesla for a long time but now that I have my hands on an actual Tesla, I just want to understand from more experienced owners how to differentiate features of Autopilot vs. FSD. IMO, unless I'm missing something, Tesla's instructions are not really clear on the differences between settings for one vs the other.

Thanks everyone in advance.

You have the option of setting up two driver profiles for yourself, one that has FSDb enabled and one that does not.

That way you can switch back and forth, on the fly, during a drive (you can always pull up the menu and deselect FSDb while driving but you can't re-engage it without stopping the car, the dual profiles overcomes this limitation.)

This gives you the best of both worlds, should you want it (and since your car has EAP.)

On the other hand, if you are perfectly happy with FSDb only, ignore all the AP/TACC stuff (in V12 you apparently won't be able to use AP/TACC at all, it will be FSDb or no ADAS features at all.)

 

[joshhidley]

Will cars w/o FSD purchased (so just base autopilot) ever get on the software that runs FSD? Maybe once it comes out of beta (haha, I know).

And what about a car w EAP? Could it use the FSDb software? (but obviously have features removed like auto lane change and end to end nav).

I rented FSD for a couple months and I’m trying to figure out what I need to do to get on the same FSD software even though I really only want the feature set of autopilot. Is it just to wait till it’s out of beta ()? Purchase EAP? Or do I for sure need to get the whole FSD package?

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Will cars w/o FSD purchased (so just base autopilot) ever get on the software that runs FSD? Maybe once it comes out of beta (haha, I know).

They can do that now. I understand that all vehicles for sale now are FSD capable (i.e. have the hardware required to run FSD). So unless you are buying or own an older vehicle, you can have FSD (and some older cars can also have an older version of FSD capability.)

The trick is to define FSD. You seem to be confused about FSD capability (which you have) and FSDb versions (different versions of the beta software.)

FSDb is available if you pay for it but you'll get whatever version is currently available for your car (and whichever update stream it is on.) Currently those on the 2024.x.x stream get FSDbV11.4.9. Some of those still on the 2023.44.x.x, are able to download V12 (and more and more of those are getting the offer each day.)

And what about a car w EAP? Could it use the FSDb software? (but obviously have features removed like auto lane change and end to end nav).

Yes

I rented FSD for a couple months and I’m trying to figure out what I need to do to get on the same FSD software even though I really only want the feature set of autopilot. Is it just to wait till it’s out of beta ()? Purchase EAP? Or do I for sure need to get the whole FSD package?

Not sure I understand your question. You subscribed to FSDb and used it and are now asking how to get it again?

 

[JB47394]

Will cars w/o FSD purchased (so just base autopilot) ever get on the software that runs FSD?

I would absolutely expect it. It doesn't makes sense to create an awesome FSD product and then maintain a completely separate, inferior Autopilot product which is a subset of FSD's features.

The question is what a neural network Autopilot would be like. Would it operate on secondary roads but not react to traffic controls? That would be helpful on long stretches of suburban highways and such, but people would probably also try to use it on roads with controlled intersections. As Autopilot isn't supposed to respect such things, that would be dangerous. For safety's sake, I'd say that such an Autopilot should respect traffic controls, but then alert the driver that the system is going to disable, requiring the driver to park and reset the system. It wouldn't be a very convenient way to get around on secondary roads.

Autopilot would then inherit whatever safety intelligence that gets built into FSD, but it wouldn't be practical to use on most secondary roads.

When would this happen? This neural network approach first has to take over highway driving. When that happens, you can start hoping that Autopilot will be worked into FSD as well.

 

[Dewg]

Will cars w/o FSD purchased (so just base autopilot) ever get on the software that runs FSD? Maybe once it comes out of beta (haha, I know).

And what about a car w EAP? Could it use the FSDb software? (but obviously have features removed like auto lane change and end to end nav).

I rented FSD for a couple months and I’m trying to figure out what I need to do to get on the same FSD software even though I really only want the feature set of autopilot. Is it just to wait till it’s out of beta ()? Purchase EAP? Or do I for sure need to get the whole FSD package?

The goal is to unify the stacks (code bases running the various ADAS systems). Once Tesla is satisfied with FSD Beta (in whatever version that happens to be), they will likely move that code down to basic AP, with the appropriate removal of functionality (freeways only, no auto lane change, etc). V11 of FSD Beta gave us a glimpse of this, as Tesla moved the FSD Beta stack down to AP for freeways. The only remnants of the old AP code are in TACC, which is still available only as an ADAS option in the Autopilot settings menu, for those running FSD Beta code.

EAP will very likely be the same. NoA will likely move to the FSD Beta stack with functionality removed accordingly.

There are many threads discussing software versions, but the short of it is that your car will never downgrade versions. If you're on 2024.x.x (which has FSD Beta v11), you will not get FSD Beta v12, which is currently on 2023.x.x. It's confusing, I know. There are 1 or 2 times a year that Tesla moves current FSD Beta versions to the latest general branch version number, bringing everyone together.

If you subscribe or purchase FSD Capability, you will get the FSD Beta stack on freeways (replacing the old AP code). However, if you cancel your subscription you will have FSD Beta disabled and return to the older AP stack.

Edit: JB beat me to it.

 

[joshhidley]

Thanks guys. That answers my questions.

Not sure I understand your question. You subscribed to FSDb and used it and are now asking how to get it again?

Sorry for the confusion. My question stems from me renting FSD (w beta v11) for a couple months and noticed how much better it is at even the standard autopilot stuff. Then when I quit my subscription, I *really noticed the difference. I was trying to figure out if I could get the FSDb software stack to run my base autopilot features. Sounds like I’ll just have to wait (…forever) until the code comes out of beta. Thanks for your response.

your car will never downgrade versions

I had forgotten about the lag on the FSD beta code base getting into the main line branch. I’m currently on 2024.2.7 so I’m out of luck to get beta v12 until they move the FSD code up to a more current main-line branch. My question is: If I want to be able to get beta v12, should I stop updating my software now or do they, when they move the beta FSD code to the main line branch 1 or 2 times a year, move it all the way to the latest version main branch?

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Thanks guys. That answers my questions.


Sorry for the confusion. My question stems from me renting FSD (w beta v11) for a couple months and noticed how much better it is at even the standard autopilot stuff. Then when I quit my subscription, I *really noticed the difference. I was trying to figure out if I could get the FSDb software stack to run my base autopilot features.

Now I understand your question. No idea when it will happen but general consensus is that it will because it will be less expensive for tesla to maintain on set of code that two. You obviously won't have the same features but the subset you get will be smooth.

Your experience mirrors what many others (including me) notice and prefer the FSDb "autopilot" lane-keep features over the base AP. I have two driver profiles because I prefer to not have FSDb making bad lane change decisions on the highway, On the other hand, I truly notice a difference between the two systems.

 

[ewoodrick]

Thanks guys. That answers my questions.


Sorry for the confusion. My question stems from me renting FSD (w beta v11) for a couple months and noticed how much better it is at even the standard autopilot stuff. Then when I quit my subscription, I *really noticed the difference. I was trying to figure out if I could get the FSDb software stack to run my base autopilot features. Sounds like I’ll just have to wait (…forever) until the code comes out of beta. Thanks for your response.


I had forgotten about the lag on the FSD beta code base getting into the main line branch. I’m currently on 2024.2.7 so I’m out of luck to get beta v12 until they move the FSD code up to a more current main-line branch. My question is: If I want to be able to get beta v12, should I stop updating my software now or do they, when they move the beta FSD code to the main line branch 1 or 2 times a year, move it all the way to the latest version main branch?

So to go back in history.... And I think that I have this correct, I'm sure someone will chime in if I ddidn't.

There was FSD and non-FSD vehicles. I don't think that there was even a TACC option.

But then people without FSD started saying that other vehicles had TACC, but Tesla didn't.
Tesla took an older version of the FSD beta, which we knew as Navigate on AutoPilot (NoA) and hobbled it into AutoPilot and started selling it.
It wasn't that great in today's standards, but it worked.

All of their engineering is focused on FSD.

Compare the Tesla AutoSteer to other manufacturers and you may find out how much better it is. Its been a few years since I've driven some of the other implementations, but basically my criteria on "is it any good" was "can it make it through an intersection without lines" Most couldn't.

Maybe they will push something newer into the non-FSD driving modes. No one knows.

 

[CMPT PAD]

All Pros out there. Please bear with me
I enjoy my 2023 MYLR tremendously. Being an old fart -72- it took me a couple months to feel comfortable with the standard Autopilot. Now I am really interested in FSD as it has progressed nicely. Here are my problems (1) I drive less than 6K miles a year (2) at most I would drive for another 15 yrs. I heard that Tesla will offer a 1-month free of FSD, if so I will jump in and try it.

So pros, advise me why/why not I should jump in FSD

Thanks for your input. Greatly appreciated

 

[Supcom]

All Pros out there. Please bear with me
I enjoy my 2023 MYLR tremendously. Being an old fart -72- it took me a couple months to feel comfortable with the standard Autopilot. Now I am really interested in FSD as it has progressed nicely. Here are my problems (1) I drive less than 6K miles a year (2) at most I would drive for another 15 yrs. I heard that Tesla will offer a 1-month free of FSD, if so I will jump in and try it.

So pros, advise me why/why not I should jump in FSD

Thanks for your input. Greatly appreciated

Why you should:
As you age, and your driving abilities inevitably decline, FSD will make your driving safer. It may help you drive further and longer than you might otherwise. Using FSD now will allow you to get used to how it drives and learn where you can, and cannot, trust it. I believe that , as you age, it may become harder for you to make this transition. Of course, we all hope that FSD continues to improve so that it becomes more and more trustworthy.

Why you shouldn't:
If your reaction time is degraded or you do not feel that you are physically, or mentally, capable of recognizing if FSD gets into trouble and taking over immediately, then you may not want to use FSD yet. Although FSD version 12 is very capable and a significant improvement over FSD version 11, it is not perfect and make make mistakes. If you are uncomfortable taking charge when this happens, you might prefer to wait a while to see if it make significant improvements in the next few months before you try it. Of course, you may not get a free trial then, but so it goes.

Since you are comfortable with Autopilot, it seems that you are already accustomed to the supervising and takeover requirements, so you may make the switch to FSD pretty easily. Start with benign traffic situations and expand your envelope gradually.

Good luck with whatever your decide!

 

[CMPT PAD]

Why you should:
As you age, and your driving abilities inevitably decline, FSD will make your driving safer. It may help you drive further and longer than you might otherwise. Using FSD now will allow you to get used to how it drives and learn where you can, and cannot, trust it. I believe that , as you age, it may become harder for you to make this transition. Of course, we all hope that FSD continues to improve so that it becomes more and more trustworthy.

Why you shouldn't:
If your reaction time is degraded or you do not feel that you are physically, or mentally, capable of recognizing if FSD gets into trouble and taking over immediately, then you may not want to use FSD yet. Although FSD version 12 is very capable and a significant improvement over FSD version 11, it is not perfect and make make mistakes. If you are uncomfortable taking charge when this happens, you might prefer to wait a while to see if it make significant improvements in the next few months before you try it. Of course, you may not get a free trial then, but so it goes.

Since you are comfortable with Autopilot, it seems that you are already accustomed to the supervising and takeover requirements, so you may make the switch to FSD pretty easily. Start with benign traffic situations and expand your envelope gradually.

Good luck with whatever your decide!

Thanks Pro, greatly appreciated.
I am waiting for the 1-month free of FSD then make my decision after that