-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Super_Popular
Well-Known Member
It's not active?, that's weird. I thought it was standard and active on all 85D's.
No, you aren't. You are getting a newer car, in addition to autopilot.
It may well be the deciding factor for you, but AP, in and of itself did not cost you $15000 dollars.
I agree it is a bargain at $2500. But the OP laying the entire cost difference on AP is just disengenious.
The hardware is standard, yes, but to activate the "AutoPilot convenience features" you need to either pay the $2500 for the option during the initial configuration/build period, or $3k at any point thereafter. When I ordered my car, it was pre-7.0 and autopilot didn't really do much of anything at the time. We opted to wait and see, and then eat the $500 if it seemed worth it.
roblab
Active Member
Most everybody here (which is probably normal and I'm the outlier), seems to be most concerned about value of what they got vs. value of what they thought they would get.
I was a purchaser of a Signature Model S. I had quite a few extras. It was worth it and I loved the car.
I loved it so much that when I saw how Tesla kept improving it, I decided to upgrade. I got nearly every option I had with the Signature, but it came now with TACC, AP, proximity sensors, four wheel drive, better range, bigger battery, more power, PLUS the almost monthly updates.
And it cost less than the first one. Considerably.
Sure, I could have compared it to a used Model S with few options. But that's what perceived value is all about. I think my new car is worth more than my old one was. I am not sorry.
I don't remember promises about AP. It was advertised as *beta*. I don't know how anyone could be all concerned and think this is a promise. What I do know about AP and TACC is that they are really helpful. I expect there to be a learning curve on my part, and I expect it will be improved, as it is month by month.
As many of you know, I just had my car in the shop for a month, and I can do a direct comparison with current state of the art. FIFTY EIGHT buttons on the dash, most of then lighted at night. My wife could not tell what they did. I had to study them for quite a bit to figure most of them out. The car was sluggish, and you daren't start it in the garage with the door shut. It had six speeds on the transmission, but no power. It vibrated and was polluting. It got 30 mpg on fuel that cost me quite a bit every week plus having to stand in the rain while I filled it, and yet the dealer thought that was pretty good.
There is no comparison. I paid a lot of money. But I got the best car on the planet, no questions. A bargain.
I was a purchaser of a Signature Model S. I had quite a few extras. It was worth it and I loved the car.
I loved it so much that when I saw how Tesla kept improving it, I decided to upgrade. I got nearly every option I had with the Signature, but it came now with TACC, AP, proximity sensors, four wheel drive, better range, bigger battery, more power, PLUS the almost monthly updates.
And it cost less than the first one. Considerably.
Sure, I could have compared it to a used Model S with few options. But that's what perceived value is all about. I think my new car is worth more than my old one was. I am not sorry.
I don't remember promises about AP. It was advertised as *beta*. I don't know how anyone could be all concerned and think this is a promise. What I do know about AP and TACC is that they are really helpful. I expect there to be a learning curve on my part, and I expect it will be improved, as it is month by month.
As many of you know, I just had my car in the shop for a month, and I can do a direct comparison with current state of the art. FIFTY EIGHT buttons on the dash, most of then lighted at night. My wife could not tell what they did. I had to study them for quite a bit to figure most of them out. The car was sluggish, and you daren't start it in the garage with the door shut. It had six speeds on the transmission, but no power. It vibrated and was polluting. It got 30 mpg on fuel that cost me quite a bit every week plus having to stand in the rain while I filled it, and yet the dealer thought that was pretty good.
There is no comparison. I paid a lot of money. But I got the best car on the planet, no questions. A bargain.
pedriscoll
Active Member
I have driven with AP for about 3000 of the 12000 miles on my car and absolutely love it. I use it every day and it makes my commute so much more relaxing. I would never go back.
When buying used, the price difference for AP versus non-AP for nearly identical cars is a lot larger than it is for new. And by nearly identical I mean the difference between a loaded 2013 S85 and a slightly less loaded 2014 S85 with AP, both with similar miles. And yes, with the 2014 you're getting a newer car but if a year newer and AP are the only differences and that's a $15,000 difference, the decision becomes much more difficult than if you're buying a new car. As you guys suggest, for a new car $2500 for Autopilot is a great value. You might argue that it's underpriced because even comparing similar AP 2014's to non-AP 2014's there's a difference in price much larger than the cost of the option.
- - - Updated - - -
You seem to be taking questions personally. I'm not casting any judgement on Autopilot. I simply shared my perception of it when I was buying and since the price difference was so large, I didn't bother to do much research as I wouldn't have sprung for an AP car given the difference in price. In fact, the point of my post is exactly the opposite of judgement. There's a lot of people on here with very vocal criticism of AutoPilot, how it's been rolled out, whether or not the current suite of sensors will ever be able to deliver what was promised, etc. As I see that, I genuinely wonder if it's as bad as it would appear. And that's where this post came from. Overwhelmingly people seem to be pleased with it. That's not exactly a conclusion most would draw after reading many of the AP posts here. So in that respect not only do I think the post isn't judgmental, but I think it's providing valuable information.
Talk about judgement. I don't care if Autopilot launched the car into the air and flew it for me, it's a convenience. I think it's an unfair assessment to judge anyone based on what price they value certain redundant safety/ autonomy feature especially when we've been doing just fine without this technology.
Sorry none of it meant personally - I have a, shall we say, "aggressive" style of conversation some times. Cheers. But seriously you won't understand Autopilot unless you drive it - Turo has a bunch for rent.
Haha, no not at all. I love the car. I never set out to buy an AP car. I had a very specific set of criteria (2013, S85, Tech, Pano, Obeche Matte, Sound Studio, white or brown exterior). To get AP and no other additions, so no different options than what I was looking at, I was looking at $67,000 - $70,000 for similar miles. I paid $52,000 for my 2013 with 31,000 miles on it. So in my situation the difference truly was a matter of $15,000+ and yeah, that $15,000 wasn't just for Autopilot. I would have been getting a year newer car but that mattered to me all of none. So in my mind it was a difference of $15,000 for Auto-Pilot and that was a pill I couldn't swallow. I have absolutely no regrets. I'd love to have AutoPilot but not at the difference in price it would have run me.
- - - Updated - - -
I disagree. At least in my specific case (which is what you're getting hung up on) it's not disingenuous at all. I mentioned it in a previous post but I'll lay it out for you again. You seem to think I'm comparing a beater 2013 to a fully loaded 2014 to get my price difference. It is fairly easy to find low mileage, well equipped 2013 S85's in the low 50k price range. I paid $52,000 for my 2013, very well optioned. I think it has everything but twin chargers and 21 inch wheels. Comparatively, the cheapest S85 AP car I found was a 2014 with higher miles and fewer options. So ok, yes, in my price difference you're getting a 1 year newer car but your assertion that it's also likely a dual motor with lower miles is absolutely false. It might be the reality you want but it's not the reality we have. So here's the decision I was faced with: Buy a loaded low mileage 2013 S85 or spend $15,000 more for effectively the same car but a year newer with Autopilot? Even comparing 2014's to 2014's the price difference between AP and non-AP cars is substantial.
I think you're not understanding something some others here have pointed out: Auto-Pilot from the factory is a bargain. $2500 for what you're getting is madly cheap. Because of that you're going to see the market determining the value of this option in the used marketplace and indeed if you look (and I have), all else being equal, Auto-Pilot is commanding significantly more than a $2500 on the second hand market. This is one of the reasons the non-AP deal was such a compelling buy for me. The Auto-Pilot cars (and I'm sure the X as well) have really pushed the prices down.
But again, you're arguing something that is irrelevant. I never asked to debate whether or not it was a good deal at $15,000. I simply mentioned in my initial post that that's why I opted not to get it. You got hung up on that, completely ignored everything else and now that's the battle you're choosing to fight, for reasons that befuddle me.
Last edited:
It's the one thing that nags me a bit about my very awesome 2014 P85. I'd really like to have AP for my long drives. If AP on our MX impresses me enough, it's about the only thing that'll make me trade up my MS. For me (and everyone's situation is different, as has been established), I'd probably get the AP car, even if the $15k can be solely attributed to it. That $15k probably just represents a better resale value exactly because it has AP. Non-AP cars will continue to depreciate rapidly, so if the finances are something you're accounting for, you'd have to consider that side as well.
Thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense now for me. Couldn't figure out your 15k price difference. I suspect as the technology improves and Autopilot hardware version 2.0 comes out, we current AP owners may feel this price differential as well for resale in the future.
The OP's additional explanation clarifies it for me also. Makes sense to save $$ and get the features that have value to you.
I also agree about about AP 2.0 hardware. If I was certain that AP 2.0 hardware would appear on the MX, I would have waited YE2016 for my reservation.
I also appreciate the additional information, but my point still stands.
Does your 13 have parking sensors and TACC?
Folding mirrors?
How long ago did you buy the 13?
To make the comparison valid, you should compare the price with, and without AP at the same time.
If you bought the 13 one year ago and are comparing the price a year ago vs today's price of a 14, that isn't exactly apples to apples.
I was not assuming the AP model was fully loaded. Because of the lack of information I figured it had some options other than AP.
As stated before, I agree I wouldn't pay an extra $15000 for just AP. But I doubt that price difference exists.
Does your 13 have parking sensors and TACC?
Folding mirrors?
How long ago did you buy the 13?
To make the comparison valid, you should compare the price with, and without AP at the same time.
If you bought the 13 one year ago and are comparing the price a year ago vs today's price of a 14, that isn't exactly apples to apples.
I was not assuming the AP model was fully loaded. Because of the lack of information I figured it had some options other than AP.
As stated before, I agree I wouldn't pay an extra $15000 for just AP. But I doubt that price difference exists.
OP, I totally get what you're saying. If the single model year newer doesn't really have value to you and all other options are equal, then the only practical difference is the AP hardware and that comes at a much steeper price than the $2500 you'd pay new. I'm not sure why so many posters are getting hung up on your premise. I had a similar decision. For me, it was either a new 70D or a classic P85. Unlike you, I do place some value on all wheel drive (we get enough snow to matter) and that is what ultimately swayed me. I didn't even get the AP features. I love the car. Love it. But I still wonder if I made the right choice. Sometimes I wish I had the ungodly acceleration of the P. Now I am wondering if I should activate the AP. I test drove a car with AP and it was pretty cool, but there is a LOT of negativity on here about 7.1, which I already have. So, I am undecided. I'm not too worked up either way, the car is awesome as is. I still don't think you can really go wrong with a MS. $52k is a screaming deal for a well equipped 85 in my opinion.
I have to tell you, it's a bit frustrating to have you continue to carry this torch when I've stated several times that it's irrelevant to the questions I asked. It's not as if I said "is Autopilot worth $15,000 to you?". Maybe if I had said that this would be an ok conversation to have but I didn't. The statement was merely me setting up the post by explaining my history with Autopilot and why I didn't get it. Now you've gotten so hung up on that statement that it's basically become the topic of the thread.
Furthermore, every time I explain myself you come back and add new variables to the equation that I never mentioned. Initially you assumed that the I was comparing single motor cars to dual motor cars, cars with higher miles to cars with lower miles, etc. When I came in and corrected you, very clearly pointing out the price difference as it applied to my specific case, your response basically says "Ok now I understand but maybe you're comparing last year's 2013 prices to this year's 2014 prices". Wouldn't you think that's something relatively obvious to state? Do you have any other qualifiers you're going to need before you accept what I'm saying is true? I'm not trying to be an ass though I understand I might come off as one here. It's just annoying to have someone get caught up on an irrelevant statement, challenge it, get a very detailed response on why it's accurate and then continue to challenge it, all the while it still has almost no relevance to the thread.
To answer your question, I bought my car less than two months ago. I had software setup to skim basically every Model S listing in the country on pretty much every popular website. I think in that very short window of time I had a very accurate picture of what 2013 - 2014 S85 and P85s were selling for. I couldn't tell you what a P85D was worth but for the cars I was shopping for I had a very good understanding of their value. I'm not saying that for everyone out there they're going to be looking at a $15,000 difference but for those buying used the difference is generally substantial.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes, I did the same with P85/ 85. We all put different values on different features.
The issues you mention with AP are the ones I was trying to get a better understanding of with this thread. It seems only 5% of people don't think Tesla will ever be able to deliver everything they advertised with AP and that slightly over 80% of respondents here are satisfied. Even for a parlor trick - and I'm not saying it is one - being able to upgrade for as little as it would cost you seems enticing.
Personally, the nerd in me has serious doubts that what they have on the car right now is ever going to be able to leave you at the entrance of a store, go find a parking spot by itself and then come back to you, at least in the way we all think. I feel like that's something that's never going to happen with the current sensor pack. Do you AP guys still expect to see this feature?
What about the tendency to follow exits when in the right lane of an expressway? Is this still pervasive on 7.1? Has Tesla acknowledged it?
chriSharek
Member
I looked and can only find P85Ds with AP . . . I couldn't find one that saved me much $.
I figure that if I'm going to spend $100k, I might as well get my dream 85D!
Mercedes has pushed their AP capability down to almost all their cars now. The "take rate" is probably quite low, however. The typical Mercedes buyer is undoubtedly less tech savvy than the typical Tesla buyer.
I wouldn't be surprised if the current AP Tesla hardware will only have fairly modest improvements in functionality. One reason is that development effort is likely now focusing on next gen hardware. So I think the value proposition of AP is how useful it is today. For someone using the adaptive cruise control aspects daily it is highly functional. To buy it today on a new car because it may do some future cool stuff may lead to some disappointment.
I wouldn't be surprised if the current AP Tesla hardware will only have fairly modest improvements in functionality. One reason is that development effort is likely now focusing on next gen hardware. So I think the value proposition of AP is how useful it is today. For someone using the adaptive cruise control aspects daily it is highly functional. To buy it today on a new car because it may do some future cool stuff may lead to some disappointment.
I looked and can only find P85Ds with AP . . . I couldn't find one that saved me much $.
I figure that if I'm going to spend $100k, I might as well get my dream 85D!
That's a good point. I also had RFS as a non negotiable, so I went new with AP and RFS (and a bunch of other things) instead of inventory and no RFS...
