MarcG
Active Member
I was thinking the same thing, but if non-P85D models with AutoPilot that were delivered shortly after the AP announcement don't also have the screw in the sideview mirrors, the theory may not hold true.
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I was thinking the same thing, but if non-P85D models with AutoPilot that were delivered shortly after the AP announcement don't also have the screw in the sideview mirrors, the theory may not hold true.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
My S85 had to have the mirrors replaced under warranty and the new ones have the same screw. The loaner P85 with AP I've had also had the screws.
No, I wasn't yanking your chain or asking something clever. I was honestly just lost. Also reading the forum a bit late after driving all weekend to attend a soccer tournament. Hey, you know lane keeping would have really helped with the fatigue...sigh.
Why isn't that fair? Granted, English is not my first language, but if someone says 'next several months' I expect the clock to start ticking from the time it was said unless specifically mentioned otherwise.
Regardless of the word-parsing, this is a classic case of the customer is always right, in a sense that it is their money and they can take it where they like for their next purchase. I believe there are already owners in this thread who have sufficiently lost confidence in Tesla over this issue that they stopped evangelizing for the company or even worse, decided their next car is not going to be a Tesla. That would really be a missed opportunity, because with very little effort, the company could have avoided this. For example, had Tesla posted a (highly) technical blog/youtube walkthrough from one of their lead engineers in say, May, about some of the issues they are running in real life getting AP to the market and why they need extra time to get there, none of this would have mattered as much. It also wouldn't have hurt their sales : half the people who understand such technological talk also understand why complex projects run into delays and appreciate learning about the behind the scenes while the other half would be able to revel in the idea that Tesla is taking the hard problems head on.
Why would I pay for something now that I can also pay for later when it is available. Because it is a bit cheaper now?
Those who cannot loose, should not gamble.
Those who cannot loose, should not gamble.
You make some good points.
There seem to be a lot of word parsing, free interpretation and similar on behalf of customers. Dissatisfied customers are certainly free to walk away from the Tesla brand if that is what they wish to do. In this particular case, I do not support customers claims that they were misled by Tesla to the extent that they claim they were.
Having said that, there seems to be a larger issue underlying this product release. The heart of the issue seems to be not that Tesla is so late with the release, but that some customers might feel ignored and disrespected.
All the misinterpretation by customers of vague Tesla statement coupled with the silence from Tesla makes for an environment where the trust between the company and some of its customers gets eroded. It is my impression that the unhappy customers dissatisfaction is disproportionally augmented because they feel ignored and disrespected. Ignoring people easily translates as disrespect and that sets people off.
My guess is that there was no communication on the progress of product release as Tesla was not fully aware of the obstacles along the way of this development. In hindsight, it is easy to say that Tesla should have issued some communication back in May. My guess is that in May they most likely believed that the solution was just around the corner, hence there was no point in issuing the communication and highlighting the issue.
The way forward is to regain the dissatisfied customers trust with some gestures of respect. These gestures of respect do not necessarily have to relate to the original issue that caused customers to feel disrespected. Any gestures that demonstrate respect would go a long way towards repairing the relationship and lost trust. Perhaps Tesla team can be creative and find some ways to show that they respect this particular group that is crying out to be heard. The tricky bit is to select the ways that will not make matters worse.
I wonder if it is really so unworkable to give these customers access to beta and get their input into the problem solving, in a controlled way. The challenge is to work with this particular group in such a way that does not set the precedent of placating the unreasonable noise. It is up to Tesla team to be the adult in this situation and select the adequate response that balances demonstrating respect whilst holding its ground on the issue.
It is my experience (got it the hard way) that the easiest and the fastest way to move people from attacking me for not delivering to their desired timeline is to share some selected problems with them and respectfully take them along the difficult journeys of problem-solving. It takes extra time, effort and most of all patience (tons of it.....) and tolerance, but in the long run, such approach ensures the benefit of not having enemies that I have to spend energy to fight along the way.
I could cry out all I want that they got it wrong, me being right and them being wrong is not the issue. The issue is that they position themselves against me and then it takes my energy and my time away from more productive efforts.
Soolim
Member
imo, I don't think this screw will lend to the "future" side camera under the mirror mounts. Side cameras will help in providing a 360 view of the car. Currently, the area surrounding B pillar is not covered by any sensor. The ultrasonic sensors in the front and rear bumpers do not cover that area.
My car was delivered on 11/18 so in about 10 days it will have been 10 months since customers cars were delivered with appropriate sensors for autopilot. My hope is Tesla pushes this out before Thanksgiving which will have been over a year at that point but at least I will not have to be annoyed telling family members, friends etc the software should be out soon, or in a few months.. Also hearing comments that a ford can do more at this point then my car is a bit aggravating. The thing that sucks about all of this is Tesla put it on themselves, they could have promised the software a year out then delivered in 10 months and everyone would be happy as hell.
gizmoboy
Member
It's complicated by the fact that such statements have an impact on stock price, and so are risky to make -- even worse if they could be used by competitors (or blown out of proportion, distorted, or misreported) to harm you (a virtual certainty in this day and age).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think it is more like they are a bit late (according to estimates in March, not talking about the whole vague "several months" thing) and they are not 100% certain they will meet their latest estimates (everything rides on how Beta goes). Is it better to be silent and not put false expectations of a solid release date (while customers may be frustrated about the lack of an estimate) or is it better to promise and then miss those promises (once, twice, possibly even more times than that)?
It is my observation from this thread that even when Tesla puts caveats, most people tend to take the timeline as a hard deadline regardless and show great displeasure when Tesla does not meet those estimates. Perhaps Tesla feels being silent is a better alternative to that.
I think it bears repeating however that Tesla has not been completely silent about this issue. They have indicated Beta started near August 15 and if everything goes well public release will be 1-2 months after that.
And I could totally live with that. But what I would like is some sort of assurance that if feature cannot be rolled out in a commercially reasonable period of time from when a customer paid for it, that they'll do something to make the customer whole. I could easily imagine some unforeseen issue pop up (imagine a hypothetical autopilot crash that provokes reactionary regulation mucking the whole thing up) that puts the project on hold a lot longer than just a few more months. For me, anyways, I'd really just like some downside protection in case I don't get what I already paid for. I'm willing to be patient. But I'm unwilling to pay something for nothing.
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gizmoboy
Member
I was referring less to the "it's late" message and more to the suggestion of a detailed post by an engineer highlighting the difficulties encountered.
I wonder what IF Tesla revealed autopilot only now, a couple months (hopefully) before it is released.
With all the AP hardware present in cars built sept 2014 till now. I know there are those that feel there are too many here are "Tesla complainers" and are overly harsh on the company and those people would still be complaining. I doubt there would be as many and they wouldn't be as vocal as most understand that their car was built a full year before the given feature was even released.
How much of this bad press regarding autopilot still not ready would they have avoided? Would be complaining that Tesla didn't have an version of autopilot in the works? Would this have affected sales as many people were sold on the Model S based on Autopilot and would not have purchased without? I doubt it.
Maybe there something we're just not privy to that made Tesla think it would be a good idea to market a feature a full year before it could be implemented. It seems they could avoided some PR headaches.
With all the AP hardware present in cars built sept 2014 till now. I know there are those that feel there are too many here are "Tesla complainers" and are overly harsh on the company and those people would still be complaining. I doubt there would be as many and they wouldn't be as vocal as most understand that their car was built a full year before the given feature was even released.
How much of this bad press regarding autopilot still not ready would they have avoided? Would be complaining that Tesla didn't have an version of autopilot in the works? Would this have affected sales as many people were sold on the Model S based on Autopilot and would not have purchased without? I doubt it.
Maybe there something we're just not privy to that made Tesla think it would be a good idea to market a feature a full year before it could be implemented. It seems they could avoided some PR headaches.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
OK, no problem.
You've been around so long, and are so knowledgeable on the stuff here I just figured there was a really low probability that you had no clue what I was talking about, and a higher probability that I had said something wrong!
I have been waiting to buy a Tesla and I would have not pulled the trigger without autopilot. So 1 sale delayed here. I'm sure we could find a few more. I certainly would have done used or strongly considered it. Still a lost sale.
I would not have updated to an 85D without autopilot, but I did so primarily for the safety features, which we've had for a while.
Even before Oct 2014 for the D reveal, and before the term autopilot was part of Tesla nomenclature, you've been holding off because of lack of lane keeping ?
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GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
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