Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[tezzla]

It seems many people here have the grievance that they didn't get what they paid for or were tricked into the purchase by false or exaggerated promises from TM. I don't know how these folks gathered the info about the car before placing their orders or what they were told by sales reps. I placed my order for a fully loaded P85D just days after it came out (actually I changed my order from P85+ to P85D), and took delivery a couple of weeks ago (agonizing wait for RHD model). I had always had the clear understanding that AP features would only be implemented over time in stages and initially there would only be basic driving assistant features like TACC and lane departure warning. I was never led to believe that other features would certainly be available at delivery and I appreciate that it's very ingenious that the gradual implementation can be done by over-air software upgrade. Do I want those additional features sooner? Of course I do, especially self parking features (come and challenge yourself with the ridiculously tight parking lots in Hong Kong), but I don't feel TM broke a promise or I was misled or tricked. I simply don't understand where all those charged emotions on this thread came from.

Wow, so when you read the Tesla blog on 10-10-2014 that said "Model S will be able to steer to stay within a lane, change lanes with the simple tap of a turn signal, and manage speed by reading road signs and using active, traffic aware cruise control. It will take several months for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars.", you knew it'd be a year? Wow, you should change your name to Nostradamus.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Agree with you. I don' think we were misled fully but we are just hitting a point in time where many are getting frustrated. I can seem some individual that bought right after the AP announcements, on a lease loosing time with features they feel they paid for etc. It seems that since we are hitting a year soon since Tesla actually did a demo of autopilot self steering many people feel it 'should' be out here a full year later. That coupled with the history of not delivering just has people worried - Tesla is always late it seems, seems to focus on the wrong priorities often, and never comes back and delivers useful features that appear to be at the top of the list for what most people are wanting (in car, mobile apps, etc.).

None the less, it'll be out when its out...

Tesla is in the odd place of trying to boost sales with exciting new tech, yet they aren't sure enough of themselves to know when they can actually deliver it. So they figure, oh this will be done in about three months, pre-announce it, then run into trouble. It would be far more preferable if they followed Apple's model of not announcing anything until it's a week or so away (for us), but I think the sales boost from pre-announcing is so attractive it's hard to resist. So marketing (and Elon) get the engineering team in trouble by signing them up for things that aren't possible in the given timeframe. Frankly, it's time for them to grow up a bit and leave at least some of the easy money on the table to hang on to long-term loyalty and repeat buyers. They can't go to that well too many more times, if at all.

 

[gizmoboy]

Tesla is in the odd place of trying to boost sales with exciting new tech, yet they aren't sure enough of themselves to know when they can actually deliver it. So they figure, oh this will be done in about three months, pre-announce it, then run into trouble. It would be far more preferable if they followed Apple's model of not announcing anything until it's a week or so away (for us), but I think the sales boost from pre-announcing is so attractive it's hard to resist. So marketing (and Elon) get the engineering team in trouble by signing them up for things that aren't possible in the given timeframe. Frankly, it's time for them to grow up a bit and leave at least some of the easy money on the table to hang on to long-term loyalty and repeat buyers. They can't go to that well too many more times, if at all.

+ Everything about this.

 

[Troy]

• center console,
• P85D HP,
• tire rotations in annual service,
• the "extended warranty" contractual language,
• slippage in Model X schedule,
• abridgment of the Ranger service offering,
• arguable slippage in auto-pilot features, etc.

Here are some more issues:

• change in language, limiting free supercharging for life to long distance travel
• misleading pricing on Tesla order page that shows price after gas savings
• not fixing problems with CPO cars sold without disclosing paint repairs

It seems many people here have the grievance that they didn't get what they paid for or were tricked into the purchase by false or exaggerated promises from TM. I don't know how these folks gathered the info about the car before placing their orders or what they were told by sales reps.

I think the main source of information was the D event and the videos of that event. With the test drives, Tesla gave a demonstration of autopilot features. Here are some of the videos of that event in case you didn't watch them: link 1, link 2, link 3.

So they figure, oh this will be done in about three months, pre-announce it, then run into trouble .... So marketing (and Elon) get the engineering team in trouble by signing them up for things that aren't possible in the given timeframe. Frankly, it's time for them to grow up

I agree. I think they discovered some unforeseen problems that were no clear at the beginning. I'm pretty sure of this because I reported one possible problem myself. The problem I noticed is related to autopilot lane change. Watch this video at 3:42. Quote (Autolog): "It's got lane change assist. Basically all you have to do to change lanes is just tap the indicator and the car will actually do itself when it's safe to do so." CNET and Tesla's own test driver misunderstood it too. Some people incorrectly assume autopilot lane change will be automatic and all you have to do is tap the turn signal. This is incorrect because the car doesn't have a rear radar and can't see behind. If you don't check mirrors, you will just get rear ended if there happens to be a speeding car coming on the lane you are changing into.

I don't blame these people because this is exactly what the marketing says on the Model S page. A Tesla blog post says the same: "Model S will be able to ... change lanes with the simple tap of a turn signal."

 

[Coiled]

I call end of Sept their drop dead date.. All signs point to a release this month

Agreed. All signs point to a release within the next few weeks. "Several months" was left intentionally vague, and I don't understand people who thought it would be a really short time frame. But if it goes past a year after the demo, even I will get a little impatient. It's not a drop dead date and I wouldn't even think about suing, but it would be annoying.

 

[yak-55]

It seems many people here have the grievance that they didn't get what they paid for or were tricked into the purchase by false or exaggerated promises from TM. I don't know how these folks gathered the info about the car before placing their orders or what they were told by sales reps. I placed my order for a fully loaded P85D just days after it came out (actually I changed my order from P85+ to P85D), and took delivery a couple of weeks ago (agonizing wait for RHD model). I had always had the clear understanding that AP features would only be implemented over time in stages and initially there would only be basic driving assistant features like TACC and lane departure warning. I was never led to believe that other features would certainly be available at delivery and I appreciate that it's very ingenious that the gradual implementation can be done by over-air software upgrade. Do I want those additional features sooner? Of course I do, especially self parking features (come and challenge yourself with the ridiculously tight parking lots in Hong Kong), but I don't feel TM broke a promise or I was misled or tricked. I simply don't understand where all those charged emotions on this thread came from.

Glad you have your long awaited delivery. Do enjoy the wonderful car. Update us how you feel next July ... if no more of the promised Autopilot features have been delivered I predict your perspective will be different. Some of us PAID for these features 10 months ago.

Time for Tesla to stop taking advantage of its gullible customers (here I refer to myself). Promises need to be kept. Best intentions don't count. Gradually walking back from commitments is not the way to establish your reputation as "a different kind of car company." It won't end well.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So marketing (and Elon) get the engineering team in trouble by signing them up for things that aren't possible in the given timeframe.

As an Engineer this is what irks me about it. It doesn't help matters that the company I work for (not Tesla) does something similar. Where we'll not only develop the hardware well before the software, but all the compliance testing will be done before the SW is even close to being done. The problem with this is you're never 100% sure some issue won't crop that will require a hardware change. If it doesn't require a change it requires a MASSIVE amount of work of redesign and recompliance testing.

With Tesla you can't change the hardware. What's on the Autopilot version 1 hardware is final.

We're all waiting for features we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how well they will work.

Will Lane Centering be like TACC, or will it be like the lane departure system where it's constantly thrown off. I'm guessing more of the later. As long as it's reasonably close to the MB system I'll be happy.

Will the self parking systems work any better than I can park it? I park just fine when I have lots of space and I park like a grandma when it's tight. At this point I mostly want updated backup lines that truly show the width of the car.

 

[yak-55]

Originally Posted by gizmoboy ​

• center console,
• P85D HP,
• tire rotations in annual service,
• the "extended warranty" contractual language,
• slippage in Model X schedule,
• abridgment of the Ranger service offering,
• arguable slippage in auto-pilot features, etc

Here are some more issues:

• change in language, limiting free supercharging for life to long distance travel
• misleading pricing on Tesla order page that shows price after gas savings
• not fixing problems with CPO cars sold without disclosing paint repairs

May be time for a WIKI ...

 

[Coiled]

Some of us PAID for these features 10 months ago.... Gradually walking back from commitments ....

No, you PAID for the eventual roll-out of those features with no commitment to a specific deadline. So did I. If you set your expectations high based on really vague time estimates, that's on you.

 

[yak-55]

No, you PAID for the eventual roll-out of those features with no commitment to a specific deadline. So did I. If you set your expectations high based on really vague time estimates, that's on you.

Its this perspective ("Its all a problem with the customers expectations") that devalues EVERYTHING Tesla says going forward ... that's not the way people expect to be treated. Those customer expectations were CREATED by the statements the company made. The company made promises that are quite plain on their surface and have not been delivered on. If everything that Tesla represents when it sells a car has to be reduced to writing in the purchase agreement, they won't sell very many cars.

 

[Stoneymonster]

As an Engineer this is what irks me about it. It doesn't help matters that the company I work for (not Tesla) does something similar. Where we'll not only develop the hardware well before the software, but all the compliance testing will be done before the SW is even close to being done. The problem with this is you're never 100% sure some issue won't crop that will require a hardware change. If it doesn't require a change it requires a MASSIVE amount of work of redesign and recompliance testing.

With Tesla you can't change the hardware. What's on the Autopilot version 1 hardware is final.

We're all waiting for features we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how well they will work.

Will Lane Centering be like TACC, or will it be like the lane departure system where it's constantly thrown off. I'm guessing more of the later. As long as it's reasonably close to the MB system I'll be happy.

Will the self parking systems work any better than I can park it? I park just fine when I have lots of space and I park like a grandma when it's tight. At this point I mostly want updated backup lines that truly show the width of the car.

Agree with your sentiments, also from experience. One saving grace is that the hardware package and autopilot CPU is all a standard setup from Mobileye. The only difference is Tesla is doing the software for themselves. So there is an answer in the back of the book, so to speak, and not a situation where hardware is blindly created prior to software.

 

[dsm363]

Glad you have your long awaited delivery. Do enjoy the wonderful car. Update us how you feel next July ... if no more of the promised Autopilot features have been delivered I predict your perspective will be different. Some of us PAID for these features 10 months ago.

Time for Tesla to stop taking advantage of its gullible customers (here I refer to myself). Promises need to be kept. Best intentions don't count. Gradually walking back from commitments is not the way to establish your reputation as "a different kind of car company." It won't end well.

You paid for the features to be rolled out one by one in the 'next several months' I believe was the wording used. Very vague. To start the clock at the announcement when cars hadn't even been delivered yet doesn't seem fair either. Yes they are late but not 10 months late.

 

[Coiled]

The company made promises that are quite plain on their surface and have not been delivered on.

They did make promises that were quite plain. No argument there. The promise was "we will deliver X, Y and Z autopilot features ... eventually." Please point out to me where the time frame for delivery of every single feature was "quite plain on its surface."

Most likely this will all be a moot point by November anyway. A little more patience will go a long way.

 

[dsm363]

They did make promises that were quite plain. No argument there. The promise was "we will deliver X, Y and Z autopilot features ... eventually." Please point out to me where the time frame for delivery of every single feature was "quite plain on its surface."

Most likely this will all be a moot point by November anyway. A little more patience will go a long way.

Exactly. They didn't say 'one new feature each two months until they are all out' for example. They were vague but other read into the statement what they wanted to by their definition of the word several.

 

[Zaxxon]

 

[tezzla]

Exactly. They didn't say 'one new feature each two months until they are all out' for example. They were vague but other read into the statement what they wanted to by their definition of the word several.

Again, from their 10-10-2014 blog:

"It will take several months for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars."

That's pretty specific to me!

 

[dsm363]

Again, from their 10-10-2014 blog:

"It will take several months for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars."

That's pretty specific to me!

Not like this hasn't been covered but what specific date and time is 'several'? Maybe it means it will take several months for the features to be completed then several months to get them uploaded to cars.

 

[dsm363]

Pretty much.

 

[Coiled]

That's pretty specific to me!

Then you obviously have a definition of "several" that is not universally shared. Or at least I'd think that would be obvious by now.

 

[Soolim]

Agree with your sentiments, also from experience. One saving grace is that the hardware package and autopilot CPU is all a standard setup from Mobileye. The only difference is Tesla is doing the software for themselves. So there is an answer in the back of the book, so to speak, and not a situation where hardware is blindly created prior to software.

Mobileye3 CPU and camera does not promise self-parking as mentioned in Tesla brochure. For information, please review the video presentation of Mobileye. imo, no amount of software can overcome basic sensor deficiency. That is the reason why BMW and MB has abundance of cameras and radar. There were sighting of MS sporting cameras under the side mirrors, here.