Australian Supercharger network

[Mark E]

News today re Solar360 home energy storage from the Australian Solar Council (John Grimes) at [email protected]
Who knows how the polluting utilities & our present 'dinosaur' Federal Government are going to react to more available & cheaper home energy storage ? I suspect we should expect some fireworks ! At least, serious attempts to curtail it's growth. However, I think the cat is out of the bag !

We currently have the worst government I have ever seen in this country, and I'm 50.
Not only are they incompetent, but also untrustworthy, hyporcritical and in league with the fossil fuel industries. I didn't particularly like the previous government, but these guys are simply diabolical. I didn't vote for this, and seeing that they have broken just about every promise about their methods and blatantly lied about their policies and respective impacts, I suspect those who did vote for them are also annoyed.

I don't see any support for EVs coming from a team that hate any renewable energy initiatives, and deny any science input. RIP CSIRO.

 

[doctorwho]

Mark, I do think that you can still be accused of being excessively positive about this Government in those comments:biggrin:

 

[miimura]

If you refer to reneweconomy, recently in Victoria, one supplier has just introduced a $0.14 per day fixed charge for customers with PV installed. This is madness to me, you do something green, you sell electricity, generally at less than what they sell it to others, and you are punished for it. All this achieves is to drive customers toward grid disconnection, and in turn cause further price rises for the remaining customers. Is it fair? no, but that's the choice the government is making by choosing to invest in coal over renewables.

As an electrical engineer for a poles and wires company, where my job is directly related to forecasting and infrastructure costs, I think I should explicitly state that these are my own personal opinions!

My personal goal in the next 5 years, is to replace both our vehicles with EV's, and be grid disconnected with battery backup covering all daily commuting and household needs.

I've been thinking about the whole "off-grid" situation. I think it should be possible to move almost all your household loads to an off-grid system, but leaving a high power battery charger connected to the grid. Most of the time, the grid connected battery charger would not be used. This would prevent any feed-in from the solar while still providing coverage for periods of prolonged low solar production and allow use of intermittent high current loads that exceed the capacity of the inverters, by connecting them directly to the grid. I've never seen a system marketed or permitted in this way, but conceptually, any off-grid system that has a connection for a backup generator could simply have a contactor that would connect the grid when the system is short on energy. The objective of this is to appear to the utility as a conventional customer, not a feed-in or Net Energy or in any way solar customer.

 

[Dborn]

I've been thinking about the whole "off-grid" situation. I think it should be possible to move almost all your household loads to an off-grid system, but leaving a high power battery charger connected to the grid. Most of the time, the grid connected battery charger would not be used. This would prevent any feed-in from the solar while still providing coverage for periods of prolonged low solar production and allow use of intermittent high current loads that exceed the capacity of the inverters, by connecting them directly to the grid. I've never seen a system marketed or permitted in this way, but conceptually, any off-grid system that has a connection for a backup generator could simply have a contactor that would connect the grid when the system is short on energy. The objective of this is to appear to the utility as a conventional customer, not a feed-in or Net Energy or in any way solar customer.

In Australia, the electricity generators/distributors are obliged to physically inspect and pass every installation that in any way connects to the grid. They can fail an installation for not having correct signage, for example. It appears our regulations here are far more stringent than than the USA. We are banned from working on the fixed wiring of a property without a license, for example.

What you are referring to is available now, just too expensive and makes no economic sense yet. We call it load shifting, so one can recharge batteries with off peak electricity. Was going to do just that a few months ago, but have deferred it til battery prices come down as they eventually must.

 

[alexeiw123]

I've been thinking about the whole "off-grid" situation. I think it should be possible to move almost all your household loads to an off-grid system, but leaving a high power battery charger connected to the grid. Most of the time, the grid connected battery charger would not be used. This would prevent any feed-in from the solar while still providing coverage for periods of prolonged low solar production and allow use of intermittent high current loads that exceed the capacity of the inverters, by connecting them directly to the grid. I've never seen a system marketed or permitted in this way, but conceptually, any off-grid system that has a connection for a backup generator could simply have a contactor that would connect the grid when the system is short on energy. The objective of this is to appear to the utility as a conventional customer, not a feed-in or Net Energy or in any way solar customer.

You can do this just fine, but it's not ideal, as we are charged a fixed price for electricity availability, even if you aren't using any. I believe you are better off to have a suitably selected PV and battery system to cover normal usage, and be prepared to start a small generator in the case of higher than normal demand. It would work out far cheaper, assuming it's infrequent. Added bonus of being free of bills and price hikes.

There are computer controlled systems appearing that can monitor your generation, tariffs and loads and switch loads on and off to get the best value electricity at all times. With enough outlay and planning I don't see this as being necessary.

 

[miimura]

In Australia, the electricity generators/distributors are obliged to physically inspect and pass every installation that in any way connects to the grid. They can fail an installation for not having correct signage, for example. It appears our regulations here are far more stringent than than the USA. We are banned from working on the fixed wiring of a property without a license, for example.

What you are referring to is available now, just too expensive and makes no economic sense yet. We call it load shifting, so one can recharge batteries with off peak electricity. Was going to do just that a few months ago, but have deferred it til battery prices come down as they eventually must.

Clearly anything like this would have to get permits, regardless of jurisdiction. In the States it would only be the City/County (JHA - Jurisdiction Having Authority) that would be responsible for permitting and inspecting the work. The Utility is only involved if you ask for something special like service installation or upgrade, solar interconnection, etc. As a property owner in California, you are allowed to do any and all trades by yourself without a license. However, the inspectors are generally more rigorous to make sure you know what you're doing. Some inspectors have more patience for this than others.

The point of my line of thinking is not specifically for the purpose of load shifting or demand response, but rather to have solar generation and still avoid pushing any energy at all into the grid. This is most useful if the utility is openly hostile to grid interconnection and/or has extremely imbalanced feed-in tariffs vs. retail tariffs. If you have high fixed monthly fees and relatively lower energy cost, then it makes less sense to use the grid as backup. However, the math to figure out whether a generator or the grid is better backup is pretty straight forward. Managing liquid fuels for a generator would be a deal breaker for me, but that's because I also have natural gas service which is orders of magnitude more reliable than my electricity.

Anyway, sorry for the diversion from Australian Superchargers.

 

[MangroveMike]

Battery Storage Solution 1.0

1. PV Direct Feed into Tesla 60
2. S60 sits on dyno
3. Brick on Accelerator controlled by Arduino hooked up to Power Circuit
4. When electricity required, brick lowered, powers dyno and electricity supplied.

Cons: Slightly Expensive
Advantages: You don't need to license tech pack and you have app to monitor everything

 

[TesAus]

Possibly been discussed already, but for those travelling with kids a supercharger at the big banana at Coffs Harbour would work well? We are waiting for our breakfast there currently!

 

[JFK]

I've been thinking about the whole "off-grid" situation. I think it should be possible to move almost all your household loads to an off-grid system, but leaving a high power battery charger connected to the grid. Most of the time, the grid connected battery charger would not be used. This would prevent any feed-in from the solar while still providing coverage for periods of prolonged low solar production and allow use of intermittent high current loads that exceed the capacity of the inverters, by connecting them directly to the grid. I've never seen a system marketed or permitted in this way, but conceptually, any off-grid system that has a connection for a backup generator could simply have a contactor that would connect the grid when the system is short on energy. The objective of this is to appear to the utility as a conventional customer, not a feed-in or Net Energy or in any way solar customer.

In the latest Renew magazine there was an article about oversizing the PV array compared to your inverter size to increase your system output during times of low irradiance. The price of solar modules have come down enough to make this an economic prospect.

 

[MangroveMike]

In the latest Renew magazine there was an article about oversizing the PV array compared to your inverter size to increase your system output during times of low irradiance. The price of solar modules have come down enough to make this an economic prospect.

What happens the PV array generates more than inverter during full radiance ?

 

[Mark E]

What happens the PV array generates more than inverter during full radiance ?

Not much from what I have seen/read. You end up with a 'top hat' shaped output curve as the inverter tops out. I have a 3.3kW inverter that the manual says supports up to 4kW of panels.

 

[heosat]

In the latest Renew magazine there was an article about oversizing the PV array compared to your inverter size to increase your system output during times of low irradiance. The price of solar modules have come down enough to make this an economic prospect.

Thats fascinating. Do you know the breakdown of a current system? I imagine the inverter and labour costs are making up an ever greater proportion of the costs.

 

[alexeiw123]

In the latest Renew magazine there was an article about oversizing the PV array compared to your inverter size to increase your system output during times of low irradiance. The price of solar modules have come down enough to make this an economic prospect.

No reason why not I suppose. I think if I did that though, I'd immediately be looking at larger inverter options! Inverters aren't all that expensive now neither. I'd also be checking with the manufacturer of the inverter whether it is capable of current limiting when there is more power available than the inverters rating.

It's fairly easy to add another parallel bank of panels to an existing system though, providing you have the room. I started with only 1kW when panels weren't so cheap, then added another 1kW array to my existing inverter.

Easy to forget the importance of cleaning your panels too.. Its surprising the difference you can see before and after a scrub in power generated.

 

[Mark E]

Thats fascinating. Do you know the breakdown of a current system? I imagine the inverter and labour costs are making up an ever greater proportion of the costs.

Panels run at about $1/W, i.e. $250 for a 250W panel.

 

[daiello]

FYI called Golbourn visitors centre regarding their supercharger. Weren't able to give me accurate dates it will be ready but gave me "rough estimate" of "June, July". Ps. Please do not hold me to this information or bother Tesla about it! Silly me chose a recognisable name and My friends at Tesla told me of a rush for information regarding a previous post I did! (Is it possible to change your username here?) (ps. Friends at tesla I love you guys)

 

[meloccom]

FYI called Golbourn visitors centre regarding their supercharger. Weren't able to give me accurate dates it will be ready but gave me "rough estimate" of "June, July". Ps. Please do not hold me to this information or bother Tesla about it! Silly me chose a recognisable name and My friends at Tesla told me of a rush for information regarding a previous post I did! (Is it possible to change your username here?) (ps. Friends at tesla I love you guys)

An individual member cannot change their username but if you click on the Contact Us link at the bottom of each page you can send a request to the site administrator.

 

[Dborn]

Was at the Sydney SC today - Frederick street was partially blocked by a crane delivering the transformer to the substation! Hopefully, we will have all superchargers online "soon".

 

[Chuq]

With Sydney and Melbourne done, and Goulburn next off the block, does anyone think Albury will be the next priority? Melbourne-Albury 326km, Albury-Goulburn 358km? It would make a road trip entirely feasible (even if the recharge times are an hour each and the stopping locations are prescriptive!)

 

[lennier]

With Sydney and Melbourne done, and Goulburn next off the block, does anyone think Albury will be the next priority? Melbourne-Albury 326km, Albury-Goulburn 358km? It would make a road trip entirely feasible (even if the recharge times are an hour each and the stopping locations are prescriptive!)

For the 85s maybe

 

[Chuq]

For the 85s maybe

Not even the 70D? 442km NEDC couldn't do 350km in real life?