um, too you!
a little jealous you have flatland around!, I'll take the redwoods anyday ;>
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At the Car Wash...
- Thread starter Andrew Wolfe
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- Model S User Interface
um, too you!
a little jealous you have flatland around!, I'll take the redwoods anyday ;>
Not trying to be a jerk here, but I don't see anyone else pointing out that the Panamera at the carwash is entirely irrelevant. My understanding of the reason that Tesla is saying no automatic car washes is that the battery pack is on the floor of the vehicle. It has seams. Although these seams are weatherproof for splashes from the road and such, there is a theoretical concern about the undercarriage jets that use higher pressure to wash road grime off the car. At higher pressures sprayed right at the seams, they could get into the battery and ruin the car. This is a pretty significant theoretical concern. Just making sure that you understand this. The Panamera has no such issue. Nor does any other ICE supercar for that matter.
The issue is not that nice cars shouldn't go through washes, it is that undercarriage sprays risk ruining the battery. At least that's how I understood it.
Having said that, I bought this car because I am a hippie tree hugger at heart and a carwash that can recycle the water is certainly desirable.
The solution if you need to hand wash at home (which is what I am going to do with this car 100% of the time) is to use a product like No Rinse car wash that just requires 2 buckets of water to wash your entire car with no need to spray it with a hose if you opt not to. You can clean the whole thing in your garage with the garage door closed with little mess.
Just something to consider. Not trying to rebuke your for using the car wash, but I wanted to make sure you understood that it could be risking your new car. Whether this is a real world concern or just a theoretical issue I have no idea, however.
Cheers.
That is not what I understood at all. What I recall from somewhere was that Tesla stated that touchless car washes were OK. So that would imply that they were not concerned about the jets, contrary to what your understanding is. Have we seen other official guidance from Tesla on this that I have missed?
mnx
2018 M3P
Tesla doesn't recommend any automatic car washes for the Roadster, but that's more because of the soft carbon fiber body. That said I know people who DO take their Roadsters to touchless washes (not me!) without issue. I do plan to take my Model S to the touchless wash, at least in the winter when hand washing is not very practical.
I've been doing rinseless washes for awhile and prefer it to the traditional hose and bucket method. with Rinseless and 2 buckets (1 with the soap, the other plain water) and hand held sprayer to presoak / prespray each panel.
I spray (with the rinseless solution in the spryaer) one panel at a time, like the front fender. The pre-soaking spray starts lifting the dirt off the surface, emulsifying it and then use the soap in the bucket and a MF towel, MF sponge, or grout sponge to then wipe the panel in one direction at a time, flipping the wash media (if you're using a grout sponge or mf towel) as you go. Put the dirty sponge in the plain water bucket to rinse off the dirt, squeeze dry and then put it back in the soap bucket. Then I simply wipe off the washed panel with a microfiber towel until dry. That panel is done, now move to driver side driver door, then passenger door, etc.
I like using this method as my current car is black, southern California has super hard water and when I do the traditional wash, I cannot run around the car fast enough without getting hard water spots. It is slower doing 1 panel at a time, but it comes out so much cleaner, uses less than 4 gallons of water total, and for me is much more enjoyable.
I use Optimum No-Rinse (ONR) wash, but there's Ultima Waterless wash Plus, Duragloss rinseless with Aquawax and several others that provide great washing polymers.
There is a difference between rinseless and waterless if you do look at different cleaners. Waterless are more like quick detailers where you don't even need a bucket, but provide much safer and stronger cleaning polymers than traditional quick detailers.
I spray (with the rinseless solution in the spryaer) one panel at a time, like the front fender. The pre-soaking spray starts lifting the dirt off the surface, emulsifying it and then use the soap in the bucket and a MF towel, MF sponge, or grout sponge to then wipe the panel in one direction at a time, flipping the wash media (if you're using a grout sponge or mf towel) as you go. Put the dirty sponge in the plain water bucket to rinse off the dirt, squeeze dry and then put it back in the soap bucket. Then I simply wipe off the washed panel with a microfiber towel until dry. That panel is done, now move to driver side driver door, then passenger door, etc.
I like using this method as my current car is black, southern California has super hard water and when I do the traditional wash, I cannot run around the car fast enough without getting hard water spots. It is slower doing 1 panel at a time, but it comes out so much cleaner, uses less than 4 gallons of water total, and for me is much more enjoyable.
I use Optimum No-Rinse (ONR) wash, but there's Ultima Waterless wash Plus, Duragloss rinseless with Aquawax and several others that provide great washing polymers.
There is a difference between rinseless and waterless if you do look at different cleaners. Waterless are more like quick detailers where you don't even need a bucket, but provide much safer and stronger cleaning polymers than traditional quick detailers.
Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that touchless car washes with sprays from the side or top or any angle in between pose an issue.
I was told some time in the past (and now I can't remember the source, so reliability is questionable but the concept makes some sense) that it was the undercarriage high pressure sprays where the conveyor passes the car over nozzles on the ground pointing straight up, or an angle close to straight up, from underneath the car. With those type of washes, the nozzle is positioned mere inches from the battery pack seams and shoots water at high pressure directly at them. Common sense would seem to tell me that a $30K battery pack may not be worth that risk, regardless of whether this is technically correct as the reason for the car wash recommendations.
I don't recall ever seeing a touchless car wash that had this configuration, which is why am am thinking this is a possible reason why Tesla would say conveyors are bad and touchless is ok.
Now, whether this is really the rationale I am not sure but that was my understanding. If this is not TMC's rationale, I would be very interested in knowing what the rationale actually is so I can make sure to avoid whatever they think is bad in any other scenarios where it may be applicable.
Cheers.
I was told some time in the past (and now I can't remember the source, so reliability is questionable but the concept makes some sense) that it was the undercarriage high pressure sprays where the conveyor passes the car over nozzles on the ground pointing straight up, or an angle close to straight up, from underneath the car. With those type of washes, the nozzle is positioned mere inches from the battery pack seams and shoots water at high pressure directly at them. Common sense would seem to tell me that a $30K battery pack may not be worth that risk, regardless of whether this is technically correct as the reason for the car wash recommendations.
I don't recall ever seeing a touchless car wash that had this configuration, which is why am am thinking this is a possible reason why Tesla would say conveyors are bad and touchless is ok.
Now, whether this is really the rationale I am not sure but that was my understanding. If this is not TMC's rationale, I would be very interested in knowing what the rationale actually is so I can make sure to avoid whatever they think is bad in any other scenarios where it may be applicable.
Cheers.
One of my co-workers just had his outside mirror torn off yesterday by one of the non-touchless car washes. I suspect that's the main reason. Also, for those car washes with tracks, the bolts holding the tracks together can do a number on the tires' sidewalls--especially if the tires are wide. I've seen far too many tires damaged that way.
Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
Won't the battery and undercarriage get corroded from all the winter salt (where applicable) if it isn't washed off? Is it sufficient to stick the hose down there and spray around?
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Not 100% sure, but I think the battery pack is encased in aluminum. Much of the rest of the undercarriage will be aluminum from the body, and most of the major suspension parts are aluminum, so no issues there with salt corrosion. The motor casing is likely stainless steel.
A spray from a hose should be plenty to remove road salt. Give it a good blast in each wheel well and under the body, particularly around back by the motor, and you should be fine.
A spray from a hose should be plenty to remove road salt. Give it a good blast in each wheel well and under the body, particularly around back by the motor, and you should be fine.
I washed my car last weekend, and left the key in the car and had the door handles retracted. The two-bucket method is the best way to wash. When I was drying the car, I just extended the door handles and dried each one with no problems.
One thing that was difficult was getting under the windshield wipers. I couldn't figure out how to put up the windshield wipers. I usually keep it up when i'm washing my other cars. The frunk was blocking them.
One thing that was difficult was getting under the windshield wipers. I couldn't figure out how to put up the windshield wipers. I usually keep it up when i'm washing my other cars. The frunk was blocking them.
byt
Member
Anyone recommend for or against this stuff?
Mr. Clean Autodry Carwash System with Starter Filter:Amazon:Home Improvement
Mr. Clean Autodry Carwash System with Starter Filter:Amazon:Home Improvement
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Galvanic corrosion can be an issue with aluminum where it is in direct contact with other metals, like steel or copper, but that can be readily mitigated by keeping the metals separated, either by design or use of insulating materials between them where they must come into contact, like bolts. I presume Tesla has knowledgable materials engineers on staff and they did the right things here. If so, salt will be a non-issue. If not, then indeed there could be problems over time.
Aluminum, on its own, can be directly exposed to salt water for decades with only minimal surface pitting and no reduction in strength.
mknox
Well-Known Member
The touchless wash I use does, but if you buy a less expensive wash package, you can get it without the undercarriage spray...
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I LOVED that system, but it has been discontinued :crying:
byt
Member
It's been discontinued? So they still sell the supplies for it at least as I still have the system.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Supplies are discontinued as well (I still have the system too). I have been able to find some supplies on eBay in the US, but there are apparently restrictions on importing "chemicals" into Canada. There was a discount store near me that bought up a bunch of "remainders" the filters and soap, but they got cleaned out (pardon the pun) before I was able to get there and stock up.
For those that don't know, the big claim to fame was the special filter that created a perfectly contaminate free rinse, and the car would air dry to a perfect shine (no water spots) without any toweling off.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Ah, cool. Thanks. Makes sense for the extra armoring and better containment of catastrophic thermal runaway.
Here's hoping that big slab of steel is properly insulated from the big hunk of aluminum (the body) it's attached to.
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