Mrbrock
Well-Known Member
I like the polestar 2 but it feels so cramped inside compared to a model 3. Ice build quality but too little range and cramped for the price comparatively.
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TessP100D
Active Member
99,000.00 for 320 miles of range is not affordable. It’s just stupid
99,000.00 for 320 + 0-60 in 2.6 seconds + 11,000 towing is not as stupid.
Shall I go on?
I don't disagree but you can just wait like the rest of us while those who absolutely must have the latest shiny object buy them. The incessent whining is ridiculous though.
TessP100D
Active Member
Yea -please do… tell me about towing. Go ahead, try to tell me about towing. What a joke You have no clue.
LOL Well, Let's start with an EV towing chart.
Tied with #1 is a joke? No clue?
Here is at least a clue. LOL
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Odd hill you’re on there… but hey, seems as though rivian/ford/Hummer are all having trouble with selling vehicles right now. /s/
Rivian is cranking out 100k SUVs, can’t keep them in stock. (Despite them being horrrrrrrid vehicles, with garbage service)
Hummer suv- typical dealer bs like the truck, units being kept for demo
Ford- top trims crest 90. They’re selling, regular truck owners dig the regular look.
This isn’t even going into ICE truck sales&cost.
A truck owner isn’t adverse to spending above 90 for an F350/3500 Ram/most “work” trucks.
TessP100D
Active Member
I get it. you don’t own a truck, never have towed. I get it.
Like clockwork.
Every time I post real data that refutes a claim - it gets personal. It happens 100% of the time.
TessP100D
Active Member
Mrbrock
Well-Known Member
A vehicle can have a high tow rating and not be a great towing vehicle. If the range is only 100 miles at full load, it does not make a good towing vehicle with the current charging infrastructure design for passenger vehicles with no trailers. Also, what about goosebeck or 5th wheel? Is it possible with a battery under the bed? While numbers are great, we can't do anything but look at them. To espouse that it is the best towing vehicle without having actually towed is baseless.
Agreed - the bottom line is there's a big difference between the raw numbers and actual real world towing experience and performance. For example, in the 150/1500 series ICE pickup realm - Ford/Chevy/GMC tend to offer better topline towing/payload numbers than RAM - but with the four corner air suspension on the RAMs - or the rear coilover suspension in the non air suspension models - many people who tow regularly - actually prefer RAMs because while the towing numbers from Ford/Chevy look better on paper, the RAM is a better and more stable towing performer, particularly when towing/hauling heavier loads. Just one example of course. Car and Driver, Motortrend, Road and Track, etc., have consistently rated the RAM 1500 as the best 150/1500 series towing platform despite the lower raw numbers. The numbers don't really tell the story in other words, and I haven't even mentioned range, because we're basically at a point where EV pickups really aren't a good towing platform compared to equivalent ICE pickups when it comes to range.
This is one of the reasons I bought my 2018 RAM 1500 pickup with air suspension and the towing package - it's very stable even when towing 7-8k lb trailers running right at the maximum tongue weight. Specific to the CT - the problem at present is we simply don't know anything. No third party with a decent reputation has been permitted to run any towing tests. I'd love to see TFLEV get ahold of a CT and run it through their EV pickup towing tests, hopefully they will obtain early access to a CT for this very purpose, but I'm not holding my breath as Tesla really doesn't seem interested in doing so. I think this is because they already know the towing performance is pretty miserable with only a 123kwh battery pack, and the Rex is nowhere close to actual availability - slated for late 2024 last I heard.
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I understand what you are saying except that my objective is to compare like kinds. Don't tell me that the number of one truck is to be believed while the same numbers of another can't be believed. Don't tell me that one vehicle is better than the other one strictly on numbers then.
If people tout numbers, then our conversation is numbers.
If people tout range, then our conversation is range.
I am not a proponent of anything other than being equal (apples to apples). Thats why I listed every single EV. No preferences. If the numbers are bad, then I can't help that. Let's compare bad number to bad numbers then.
Mrbrock
Well-Known Member
I understand and agree. But in this instance, towing isn’t just about numbers. As has been asked and you have sidestepped, have you towed a trailer in a truck? Any truck? Numbers may sell more off one truck over another but there is a lot more to towing than having the biggest numbers. And until all the relevant trucks have been tested by the same person towing the same load on the same road, there isn’t a way to compare on paper.
The EPA will say it’s a 500 mile range only to find out in real life driving it will only deliver 350
Yes, I have towed an automobile trailer "with" a truck on numerous occasions. It's no big deal. Who cares? It's an irrelevant question concerning range and towing capacity of the vehicle itself.
If I have towed with a CT - its towing capacity stays the same.
If I haven't towed with a CT - its towing capacity stays the same.
If I have towed with a Rivian - its towing capacity stays the same.
If I haven't towed with a Rivian- its towing capacity stays the same.
What difference does it make what I've done? I can't change the towing capacity of anything. Thats what the discussion is.
It's just a way to ease into making the discussion personal - which is what happens 100% of the time when a discussion gets to this point.
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No, it's not.
Towing capacity is not equivalent to towing capability. You appear to be conflating the two. That seems disingenuous, but ideally it's just an oversight based on your positive feelings about the Cybertruck.
I've towed quite a bit with an EV. After @JimVandegriff and a few others, I was a pretty early adopter of towing a camper with our 2016 Model X. I am very aware of the difference between towing capacity and capability, and I can assure you that mixing up the two is unfair to any discussion.
It matters not what we call them in my opinion.
If we are talking about capacity. Then let's talk about that to compare EV's.
If we are talking about capability. Then let's talk about that to compare EV's.
I have only presented 1 number - for ALL EV's.
What Is Towing Capacity?
Your vehicle’s towing capacity is the maximum amount of weight it can safely pullOh well.
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Since a lot of people use older Trucks to tow all kinds of Trailers. What kind of towing range losses could you expect with a 6 to 7 year old Cybertruck?