Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
"60% of Americans unaware electric cars exist" over at GAS2
60% Of Americans Unaware Electric Cars Exist - Gas 2

Wow, I can't really believe that. I guess the general population is just dumber than I thought.

I better go out and give some more free rides.

To me, this story says that demand for Model 3 is going through the roof when the public actually sees them driving around and parked in the driveways of neighbors. Further, I have not actually seen a Model X at a soccer game yet, with an uber-soccer-mom at the wheel. That market has yet to evolve, too.
 
Battery expert(s) opinion needed.

EM indicated in a tweet exchange with Fred L. that the Supercharger V 3 would be capable of a much faster charge rate than is currently available. Question: Will the this be possible for our current (old) battery packs OR will it only be available for the newer battery packs which will be supplied with GF batteries?
I think I have to say something. I asked this question to a Tesla owner adviser in Fremont. He asked his colleague in supercharge team and replied me the next day. The answer is that the V3 rate will work on old cars. I asked him again and again because I don't believe. But he said that is what the supercharge team says. He doesn't know how to make me believe .

Mod edit:
I'm posting my response here rather than as a standalone post because in the collective experience of Tesla owners and TSLA owners...as well as the internet in general...uncorroborated and unverifiable "heard from someone" stories have the unfortunate tendency not only to be believed, repeated, magnified and enshrined....but also not to turn out to be the case.

I am not going to excise this post; rather, I am going to leave it up as an example of what will not be let stand, to the extent I can quash these. Now, IF the poster has corroborating material, that is terrific and we would love to post it here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think I have to say something. I asked this question to a Tesla owner adviser in Fremont. He asked his colleague in supercharge team and replied me the next day. The answer is that the V3 rate will work on old cars. I asked him again and again because I don't believe. But he said that is what the supercharge team says. He doesn't know how to make me believe .
More precisely, the supercharge team said V3 is just charge network upgrade, doesn't involve hardware change in the car. Then I ask so the old car can charge at the rate of 350 kW and the owner adviser said yes. Then I said so I can post this on any forum and he said yes.
I still dont believe be wise so many chemistry experts said it is impossible.
I still ordered an X . My only hope is that when V3 comes, at least we can get 150kw constantly. That would be good enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden and gene
I think I have to say something. I asked this question to a Tesla owner adviser in Fremont.

Do NOT believe anything an owner adviser states. Unless it has been confirmed in _writing_ or by a secondary (non-owner advisor) source. Unfortunately lacking internal communication, extreme growth, high employee turn over and poor internal training means that owner advisors generally know just enough to be confidently wrong about anything outside of, yes the car has a battery and 4 wheels. I stopped relaying what I hear from them a long time ago. They are just not a credible source. At all.
 
WRT to the supercharger free usage extension announced today - Tesla updated their Nov blog post with the following:

"Update: Due to high demand, customers can still place an order for a Model S or X until January 15th, 2017 and take delivery by April 15, 2017 to receive free unlimited Supercharging."

Note delivery was extended to April 15th as well..
 
More precisely, the supercharge team said V3 is just charge network upgrade, doesn't involve hardware change in the car. Then I ask so the old car can charge at the rate of 350 kW and the owner adviser said yes. Then I said so I can post this on any forum and he said yes.
I still dont believe be wise so many chemistry experts said it is impossible.
I still ordered an X . My only hope is that when V3 comes, at least we can get 150kw constantly. That would be good enough.

Do NOT believe anything an owner adviser states. Unless it has been confirmed in _writing_ or by a secondary (non-owner advisor) source. Unfortunately lacking internal communication, extreme growth, high employee turn over and poor internal training means that owner advisors generally know just enough to be confidently wrong about anything outside of, yes the car has a battery and 4 wheels. I stopped relaying what I hear from them a long time ago. They are just not a credible source. At all.

IMHO, @schonelucht is right as based on the myriad of posts on TMC supporting his statement. Best to take things with a big grain of salt.

To potentially future proof your Tesla you're best off getting the biggest battery you can (no guarantees though).
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
I wouldn't expect huge improvements on the charging speed. Especially for current cars. All we know (according to Musk) is that the next gen supercharging will have some specification exceeding 350 kW.

This could be something as simple as the next gen supercharger being capable of supplying 140 kW to four bays. That would add up 560 kW, which is greater than 350 kW but still not particularly exciting.

The next gen supercharger is something I have discounted 100% in my investment thesis. It would be great if there are improvements, but it's not hugely important for Tesla. Tesla will do well even with current supercharger tech.
 
Battery expert(s) opinion needed.

EM indicated in a tweet exchange with Fred L. that the Supercharger V 3 would be capable of a much faster charge rate than is currently available. Question: Will the this be possible for our current (old) battery packs OR will it only be available for the newer battery packs which will be supplied with GF batteries?

Will definitely only be available on cars with newer batteries. I would be very surprised if Tesla cells, in the next 3 years, are able to charge at >3C (which >350kW implies) without sacrificing energy density. If Tesla has cells in the lab that will charge at >3C without a sacrifice in energy density... that would be amazing, it would constitute an enormous breakthrough.
 
Will definitely only be available on cars with newer batteries. I would be very surprised if Tesla cells, in the next 3 years, are able to charge at >3C (which >350kW implies) without sacrificing energy density. If Tesla has cells in the lab that will charge at >3C without a sacrifice in energy density... that would be amazing, it would constitute an enormous breakthrough.
Anyway your post also makes me comfortable. I don't want to wait for 3 years because I need a car now.
 
Which printer is that?
Taz 4 in a 1 inch double foil backed foam enclosure to heat the build volume and avoid drafts.

Also sorry to our illustrious moderator and cat hurd for posting in the wrong thread. Forgot which one I was viewing when I logged into the alway open tab on my phone browser.

Be seriously does anyone have definitive call on profit relazation for unimplemented software? I don't recall seeing a refund policy for the pre paid ap 2.0 features. Are we assuming not implementing the software is like an undelivered car? Could argue the hardware delivery might be enough but then again maybe not. Does GAAP even cover this kind of situation? I can't think of any situations with this kind of roll out.
 
I think I have to say something. I asked this question to a Tesla owner adviser in Fremont. He asked his colleague in supercharge team and replied me the next day. The answer is that the V3 rate will work on old cars. I asked him again and again because I don't believe. But he said that is what the supercharge team says. He doesn't know how to make me believe .

Mod edit:
I'm posting my response here rather than as a standalone post because in the collective experience of Tesla owners and TSLA owners...as well as the internet in general...uncorroborated and unverifiable "heard from someone" stories have the unfortunate tendency not only to be believed, repeated, magnified and enshrined....but also not to turn out to be the case.

I am not going to excise this post; rather, I am going to leave it up as an example of what will not be let stand, to the extent I can quash these. Now, IF the poster has corroborating material, that is terrific and we would love to post it here.
Wait what? Sounds like censorship to me. I understand moderating for useless and even harmful posts . This does not fit the criteria. This post did not mean to be sensational, just one man's written narrative of an exchange with a Tesla rep. I think we can draw our own conclusions whether it's worth further rumination or simply discard it. Sorry but hope we do not let one do the excision for us, right or wrong.
 
Wait what? Sounds like censorship to me. I understand moderating for useless and even harmful posts . This does not fit the criteria. This post did not mean to be sensational, just one man's written narrative of an exchange with a Tesla rep. I think we can draw our own conclusions whether it's worth further rumination or simply discard it. Sorry but hope we do not let one do the excision for us, right or wrong.
Such is the virtue of participating on a moderated forum. AudubonB has a fine line to walk, between keeping the conversation on-topic and a reliable source of information, without taking away too much information that may or may not turn out to be valid.

I know of at least one instance where information that sounded valid, but was deleted by its OP (likely thinking better of sharing it) resulted in other messages about it being deleted.

Its a tough call.

Personally, I think a post like Quesder's is probably OK, but should come with a big disclaimer that believing it should be taken with a great deal of caution. It is a statement (albeit second hand) from a Tesla employee, who claimed that Elon's V3 >350kW SC would be able to charge old cars at the high rate. We all know from physics first principles that there are caveats to charging Li-ion batteries at such a high C-rate. Either Tesla has come up with some very intriguing technology, or someone in this conversation has misunderstood the capabilities, and lead to less than fully accurate statements.
 
My thought on charging rate is it's unlikely for a battery pack to be able to charge at a rate much faster than maximum discharge rate.

350kWhr on current battery packs is just hard to believe.
 
Will definitely only be available on cars with newer batteries. I would be very surprised if Tesla cells, in the next 3 years, are able to charge at >3C (which >350kW implies) without sacrificing energy density. If Tesla has cells in the lab that will charge at >3C without a sacrifice in energy density... that would be amazing, it would constitute an enormous breakthrough.

I'm curious why Coulombs is the unit of interest here rather than amps.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: erthquake
I'm curious why Coulombs is the unit of interest here rather than amps.
It's not Coulombs, C rate is an often-used measure of charge/discharge performance that is relative to battery capacity. So a 20Ah battery charging/discharging at 1C is charging/discharging at 20 amps, 2C would be 40 Amps.

A 50Ah battery charging/discharging at 1C is charging/discharging at 50 amps, 2C would be 100 Amps.

More here: http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_battery_specifications.pdf
 
Wait what? Sounds like censorship to me. I understand moderating for useless and even harmful posts . This does not fit the criteria. This post did not mean to be sensational, just one man's written narrative of an exchange with a Tesla rep. I think we can draw our own conclusions whether it's worth further rumination or simply discard it. Sorry but hope we do not let one do the excision for us, right or wrong.

Yep, agreed - that's taking moderator job not just a bit but way too far.
 
Will definitely only be available on cars with newer batteries. I would be very surprised if Tesla cells, in the next 3 years, are able to charge at >3C (which >350kW implies) without sacrificing energy density. If Tesla has cells in the lab that will charge at >3C without a sacrifice in energy density... that would be amazing, it would constitute an enormous breakthrough.

I thought that those cells can take quite a bit at certain charge states. So say if the cell is almost empty maybe the amperage on the wire is the limitation of charging speed, but not when it's half or more full. Could be that it also has to do with heat management in the pack.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.