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2014 Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid
- Thread starter AC1K
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- Electric Vehicles plug-in
Argelius
Member
Actually, in the parlance of hybrid vehicles, I believe the "e" signifies that this is a plug-in hybrid (like the Volt) as opposed to a conventional hybrid (like the original Prius).
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
More about the Panamera S E-Hybrid in this thread:
(Panamera Hybrid) What a joke! this car cant compete at all...
- - - Update: - - -
Looks like the new thread ate the old... Wonder why?
(Panamera Hybrid) What a joke! this car cant compete at all...
- - - Update: - - -
Looks like the new thread ate the old... Wonder why?
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Yeah, except track performance.
Every Porsche is a sportscar at heart. This company would never ever sell a car with power limitations similar to the Model S. The Tesla cannot complete a single lap on a race track at full power.
A company with the racing heritage and history like Porsche simply cannot sell that. If you buy a Porsche you buy a lot more than a car. You can even take a standard Cayenne to the track and it will perform all day.
This is the main reason why Porsche and many other german manufacturers follow the Plug-In hybrid route.
It will be very interesting to watch sales of the Tesla here in germany.
purplewalt
Active Member
Agreed.
I think once the Model S establishes a bit more of a street presence in Germany, and people actually see it and drive it, the sales will evolve.
NOT all at once, but surely, slowly, and then proceed with a lot more gusto.
As most people don't take their car to the track, I don't think that is a valid measuring point.
They use it to go to work, drop off and pick up the kids, go to the grocery store and church, family vacations, etc.
All which the Model S excels at delivering versatile and stunning performance.
Some early Adopters in Norway waited over 2 years for their cars, they just started taking deliveries in August.
The line for people waiting for their Model S will just be getting a lot longer for the later Adopters in Germany.
If Tesla sells more than 500 cars here per year I would be very suprised.
I think in the US the car has some patriotism on its side, so people tend to overlook the problems of the car.
But this wont help the car here.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Since you go by the nick Realist on this forum…
As a human being living on – and raising children on, and perhaps even seeing your children’s children growing up on – the planet known to many people as Earth – whether you consider yourself to be German, American or heck even Swedish – a little phenomenon that's often referred to as Man-Made Global Warming is 'perhaps' also something one would arguably be wise to factor in. Instead of things like how fast your giant car goes around a 'racetrack'.
And to all of you that might be concerned… You needn’t worry. I’m not going to turn this into:
Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion - Page 46
…or hijack the thread formerly known as:
”(Panamera Hybrid) What a joke! this car cant compete at all...”
If Realist (or someone else) engages, I’ll personally make sure the discussion is continued in the proper thread.
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The Panamera Hybrid is recycable at 95% incl. battery.
Just because a car has no local emissions doesn't mean that it's friendly to the Environment.
I see 10-20 year old cars every day with their first engine. In 2023 no Model S will still use its first battery, just like you are not going to use your phone or your laptop in 10 years from now.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
So from a Green House Gas emissions point of view, do you think the Panamera S E-Hybrid would be a better choice than a Model S in a:
a) 10 year timeframe?
b) 20 year timeframe?
This is a difficult question. If you do want to have your electricity from solar,wind and nuclear Power Plants the Model S has an advantage.
Still, the Panamera Hybrid combines the advantages of both an electric and a gasoline engine. It's a sustainable car, because the small battery can be replaced or recycled.
I think the Tesla's monster battery is a different animal on that regard. If you do look through these forum, degradation is already an issue.
Still, the Panamera Hybrid combines the advantages of both an electric and a gasoline engine. It's a sustainable car, because the small battery can be replaced or recycled.
I think the Tesla's monster battery is a different animal on that regard. If you do look through these forum, degradation is already an issue.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
I’m only a layman when it comes to these kind of technical issues. But that’s one of the really great things about TMC. There are some really knowledgeable people on the forum. Perhaps one of them will chime in.
But until then:
As I understand it, the Model S battery is also fully recyclable (and as we both know easy to replace). And when the battery has reached a level of degradation at which point an owner may choose to replace it, such a battery can still serve quite well for an additional time in a energy storage facility. As I understand it, facilities like these are part of Tesla’s (or Elon’s) business model. Once every 24h cycle or so, they will buy electricity when it’s cheap, and then sell when it’s expensive. In facilities like these, the charge and discharge cycles can also be kept a lot more shallow than in a car, thus further prolonging battery life. An insulated facility, which means a controlled temperature, will also help to further prolong battery life as I understand it. Finally a practice like this, where the battery still has value once an Model S owner wants to replace it will help keep the cost of a battery replacement down.
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A Vanadium based battery is by far the more viable stationary solution. It has no cooling or degradation issues.
A used car battery is useless and the recycling process is complex. I don't think it's that easy. In the end, time will tell.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but having both an electric and ICE propulsion system is a disadvantage. First you pay for both, then you have the maintenance that the Ice requires, and there are so many more failure points.
Since you brought up a 10 and 20 year use cycle, you will have to deal with things like replacing mufflers, catalytic converters, fuel, oil, air filters, engine oil, alternator, starter, timing belt, fuel pump, water pump, spark plugs/wires/coil packs and I could go on for days. How exactly is this supposed to be better for the environment?
I have a lot expirience with premium german carmakers. i did 60-80tsd km/year. I faced complete breakdown within the first 3 month etc. but i did more than 150.000km with my roadster within 2 1/2 years with only minor problems and was never left stranded. my battery is at at least 85% and seems to be good for the next 7-10years to get replaced by a much larger one.
If you want, i can show you my Roadster as well as my Model S.
best
Eberhard
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Wait, are you referring to Vanadium Redox batteries? Those have a host of problems and I doubt they will prove cheaper than second life EV batteries.
I've tried to respect your opposition viewpoint, but now you're just trolling the forum.
Comparing the 10 year life of the temperature controlled Model S batteries with laptop batteries is completely absurd. The battery will have an estimated 70% or more of it's original capacity.
I'd wager damn near 100% of Model S in 2023 still have their first battery.
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