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2014 P85D Owners... hindsight? regrets?

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#101
svp6 said:
Some regrets - 90D would have been ideal for me. But then I got to drive a great car for the last 7 months. When my lease expires in couple years I will go to the max battery pack available and the plain D.
Click to expand...

I think this is what sums it up in general with regards to Model S. For all it's problems and promises, if you would have waited, you wouldn't have gotten to enjoy Model S for XXX number of days/months. As consumers in general, not specific to Tesla, you need to realize that what you are paying for is a product as it is right now. Any promises of future whatevers should not be factored into your decision as a rational consumer, therefore you can't be dissapointed/cheated when those either don't come to fruition or come very very late.

Regarding Tesla specifically, I maintain still that they are not ill-intentioned. But if they announce something, I multiply their time-table by three and their performance claims I dismiss until certain users on here verify them independently (dyno, vbox, track, multiple range tests, REST, etc). Tesla still holds all the cards and the facts/specs locked within Corporate. At the end of the day, we can only get 90% of the story even with all the tool tools at our disposal and an active community with a vested interest.
 
#102
Took delivery 23 Dec 2014. Love the car. No regrets about the decision. After watching the company for years and finally deciding in October 2014 that I wanted one, I was willing to pay a premium to get the car months sooner, with the P/D options included at no extra cost. Other than the obligatory 3.1-second test drives for friends, I've used neither feature for any practical purpose.

I do wish the company had kept quiet about Autopilot until the 7.0 launch. The publicity value from suddenly uncloaking and unlocking a major feature like that would have had industry observers' heads spinning for months. It might even have exceeded the value from the extra sales from Oct-now that have come at the cost of a few current owners' resentment. That said, I work in software, so I'm a little too self-aware to cast the first stone at another company for being late with a promised software product. It's unfairly easy to look back with 10 extra months of information and question the company's decision to allow people to prepay for the Autopilot option.
 
#103
No regrets! Got my P85D on Dec. 30. In a few years I'll upgrade my battery pack. Hopefully I'll then have a P200D :). Eventually I'll have lane-keeping. That will be a nice bonus, but it wasn't why I bought the car. In the meantime, I have a well built car that's comfortable and fun to drive, and free charging when I'm on road trips. Sure, there are things about the Model S that aren't exactly how I like them, but none of the last 8 cars that I've had were exactly right either. My P85D more than meets my expectations.
 
#104
I was looking at this from another perspective earlier.

I'm very curious how Q4'2014 sales/deliveries would have been if the P85D were launched with completely indisputable advertising of key specs that said things like:

  • 550 peak horsepower output (691 HP combined motor rating)
  • 0-60 in 3.6s (3.2s with 1-foot roll out)
  • Autopilot hardware ready, with full functionality being enabled in about a year OTA (assuming autopilot is actually enabled this year)
  • 253 miles of range

vs. what they actually did advertise at launch (and is now certainly causing them headaches), which was:

  • 691 HP
  • 0-60 in 3.2s
  • Autopilot functionality completed via OTA updates over the next several months
  • 285 miles of range

While "+130 HP, -0.6s 0-60, -12 miles of range" vs the P85 doesn't look as impressive as "+270 HP, -1.0s 0-60, +20 miles of range", it's still very impressive. I think Tesla still would have done pretty well if they had simply advertised the former, no-room-to-debate specs.

They may not have sold as well as they did, but I think it would have been fine. I personally would have waited before trading up, as I believe many other existing owners would as well. But there were quite a few on-the-fence non-owners who pulled the trigger based on the AWD aspect, among other things. I personally am not sure whatever boost in sales that happened as a result of their "alternative" marketing strategy is going to be worth it to them in the end given the stain on their image in the eyes of some of their most loyal supporters. Combine that with whatever consequences may or may not happen legally. Even if they eventually win a legal battle on the matter, the public relations aspect of such a case would be pretty damning I'd think. Headlines like, "Tesla Sued over Allegedly Misleading Specifications" would be the ones people would see and remember, regardless of if they win in the end.

Personally, it still looks to me like a shady marketing tactic to boost Q4'14 sales, notably from existing owners, and that's how I'm going to feel about it until it's never made right one way or another (if that even ever happens).

One thing is for certain: no resolution will come from continued debate on the topic here. So, pretty sure this will be my final post on the matter. I just figured this final potential perspective was worth sharing.
 
#105
I would most likely have bought the car with those specs, but it would have been a harder sell. The nextgen seat only on the P was the one final factor that sealed the deal for me personally. And I believe it would have done the same even if specs had been more real world like. Those seats mattered a lot to me.

I of course also had the knowledge that the price of the car in Norway was lower than it should be due to the USD getting stronger and stronger against the NOK. So I felt like I got the car on a discount;)
 
#106
I still would have gone with a Model S. Depending on what specs the 85D showed, it's possible I would have opted for the 85D instead, based on the increased range.

At the time the P85D was not offered with 19" wheels, I was thinking I would, in fact, go with the 85D. I liked the idea of having the "top of the line", but I knew I didn't want 21" wheels for the kinds of roads my wife and I travel. So the P85D with 21" wheels was not an option.

What I'm saying is that to some extent, the decision between the P85D and the 85D was already at least a somewhat close one. If the HP figures had been close, and the range figures heavily favored the 85D, I may have gone that route.
 
#107
I would have gone for the P85D as well because I wanted the experience of the top of the line model. I had been waiting for improved seats for many months and the next gen seats, offered only in the P85D, were the icing on the cake. This wouldn't have been an as easy decision if I had known about the 415 kW battery limit though. The 700 hp (Europe) / 515 kW I expected it to be able to make made it much easier to pull the trigger. The hp difference advertised between the P85D and the P85 or 85D was so large that I simply could not resist choosing the P85D.

Now I feel cheated on by Tesla which would not have been the case if they would have disclosed specs that correctly compared the P85D to the P85 or 85D. I no longer trust Tesla.

They had the option to turn this around by offering upgrading the contactors and fuse for free or a minimal fee. I do not consider charging $7500 + tax for this upgrade doing P85D owners a favor. I also believe the P85D should be discontinued ASAP and replaced by the P90D. It does not make sense having 3 performance models to choose from IMO.
 
#109
Agree, with the last 3 posts. Also, let's not forget that the 85D power and speed was underrated at introduction and next gen seats were not initially available on that model. So, the gap with the P85D was made, arguably, artificially higher. Then, later, out of nowhere the Sport mode becomes available on the 85D to a lot less fanfare from TM (along with next gen seats), and although I was happy that it did, it makes you wonder what was/wasn't premeditated.

Now, we see some of this happening again with the Ludicrous upgrade: what are the real-world numbers? The people who would/have signed up in a heartbeat (on both sides of the hp argument) are now waiting for some proof and may cancel the upgrade given the events in the past year. I may be editorializing a bit, but this what I've observed.
 
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#110
I would agree that there should be people canceling their P85DL upgrade and requesting return of their non-refundable deposit if the real world 1/4 mile time comes in slower than, say, the P90DL's published 10.9 seconds plus the stated .2 second increase moving from 90DL to 85DL configuration. A repeatable move from 11.7 to 11.1 seconds in the 1/4 would be worth the upgrade cost to me but there will be some that simply say I've had enough; screw it. Of course initial real world P90DL 1/4 mile times of 11.4 would make the P85DL an 11.6 second car which will drive a lot of cancelations.
 
#111
wk057 said:
I was looking at this from another perspective earlier.

I'm very curious how Q4'2014 sales/deliveries would have been if the P85D were launched with completely indisputable advertising of key specs that said things like:

  • 550 peak horsepower output (691 HP combined motor rating)
  • 0-60 in 3.6s (3.2s with 1-foot roll out)
  • Autopilot hardware ready, with full functionality being enabled in about a year OTA (assuming autopilot is actually enabled this year)
  • 253 miles of range

vs. what they actually did advertise at launch (and is now certainly causing them headaches), which was:

  • 691 HP
  • 0-60 in 3.2s
  • Autopilot functionality completed via OTA updates over the next several months
  • 285 miles of range

While "+130 HP, -0.6s 0-60, -12 miles of range" vs the P85 doesn't look as impressive as "+270 HP, -1.0s 0-60, +20 miles of range", it's still very impressive. I think Tesla still would have done pretty well if they had simply advertised the former, no-room-to-debate specs.

They may not have sold as well as they did, but I think it would have been fine. I personally would have waited before trading up, as I believe many other existing owners would as well. But there were quite a few on-the-fence non-owners who pulled the trigger based on the AWD aspect, among other things. I personally am not sure whatever boost in sales that happened as a result of their "alternative" marketing strategy is going to be worth it to them in the end given the stain on their image in the eyes of some of their most loyal supporters. Combine that with whatever consequences may or may not happen legally. Even if they eventually win a legal battle on the matter, the public relations aspect of such a case would be pretty damning I'd think. Headlines like, "Tesla Sued over Allegedly Misleading Specifications" would be the ones people would see and remember, regardless of if they win in the end.

Personally, it still looks to me like a shady marketing tactic to boost Q4'14 sales, notably from existing owners, and that's how I'm going to feel about it until it's never made right one way or another (if that even ever happens).

One thing is for certain: no resolution will come from continued debate on the topic here. So, pretty sure this will be my final post on the matter. I just figured this final potential perspective was worth sharing.
Click to expand...

Nice summary (excluding 1/4 mile time), no way in HECK would I have bought the P85D knowing that, I would have bought the 85D... 100% positive
 
#112
I have a P85D that was delivered in the 2014 4th quarter push.
For me this is easy, I would not have bought the P85D if I knew then what I know now.
The actual delta performance from the 85D would not have been significant enough for the price difference.
The power/hp was the deciding factor for me. Yeah, I could have done more checking, but didn't. Didn't think I needed to be concerned.
I will fully understand before I do anything about Ludicrous, or any other Tesla product.
I got the next gen seats at delivery, and would have been very unhappy if like some that was a long wait.
Autopilot has not been a disappointment yet, but that time is rapidly approaching, esp if the performance is not there.

I like my P85D, it's just not as exceptional as claimed by Tesla, and I'm disappointed.
 
#115
The advertised difference in horsepower between the 85D and P85D was 315 hp. The actual difference is 52 hp and that difference shrinks to no difference as you go below 60% SOC on both cars.

I would have definitely bought an 85D instead had I known what I know now.
 
#118
I suspect I would have ended up with a P90DL (or even been still waiting for whatever is next). Had I known the wait for the seats I ordered would be 5 months, and for Autopilot features 11+ months I would have simply waited.
Had I known I'd never see performance commensurate with the widely advertised 691hp, I might not have bought a Tesla at all. Lots of other interesting vehicles in this price range ...

In retrospect I didn't appreciate nearly enough the due diligence that Tesla demands ... there really wasn't any reason to be surprised, the companies track record of shamelessly over-promising that is now clear to me, was in evidence before I purchased as well. I would not encourage anyone to buy a Tesla expecting anything other than what they test drive. (I upgraded a P85 order to P85D having only driven a P85 and read the Tesla specs for the P85D).

That said, no one held a gun to my head, and I do think my P85D is a great car. I'm glad I have it. I enjoy it every day. Unfortunately Tesla isn't the great company I had believed. The *experience* could have been a lot better....
 
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