J1772 adapter, charging practicalities

EchoDelta · Jul 7, 2012

Hi all, I'm posting a question for model S owners (I'm a model X reservation holder).

I have another ICE/EV hybrid and member of a bunch of charging station networks. All of these offer J1772 plugs. If I make a longish trip, and want to charge,

- Can someone post a picture of the Model S J1772 adapter?

- Do you need to carry your portable charging cable in order to use the adapter?(hope not because then it makes it really hard to justify leaving the included charger at home)

- And if you do need to have your whole charger with you, how do you secure it to the car or station? Its only a matter of months before someone realizes people are leaving unsecured $1500 accessories on the floor next to the car.

In the current situation, I rarely need to carry my charger . In those few cases I do, its a groan to put it in the car, then plug, and I back my car parking it with the wheel on the cable to make it harder to steal.

My wish would be that the J1772 adapter is just a shoe-sized dongle..or that the charger can be locked in place needing the key to unplug it..but may be too late

Concrete answers appreciated!

smorgasbord · Jul 7, 2012

I've heard the J1772 adapter for Model S described as a "beer can" form factor. It does not need the UMC. I believe it locks to the car via the Model S mechanism. I don't know if it's lockable on the J1772 side.

vfx · Jul 7, 2012

As I understand it (and this could be wrong)

There has been no pictures of the Model S to J1772 adapter.
It's a short cable like Tesla's Roadster to J1772 adapter(bulkier than The CAN)
You will likely not need your "charger" Tesla helped write the protocols for the J connector so it's largely a mechanical connection.

We know the Model S has an electromagnet that holds the plug into the car. Does that magnet make it thief proof?
Anyone can unplug the j connector from your car or cable unless you foil them on you own.
If you have an X on order you might have to wait a few weeks for a complete answer. Plenty of time?

jerry33 · Jul 7, 2012

My expectation would be that there would be one of these for the Model S as soon as there are enough out there to create a demand.

vfx · Jul 7, 2012

jerry33 said:
My expectation would be that there would be one of these for the Model S as soon as there are enough out there to create a demand.

The demand is there with every car. New EV owners will want Model S version of the CAN as soon as possible. Not that they need it. Just that they think they need it.

EchoDelta · Jul 7, 2012

vfx said:
If you have an X on order you might have to wait a few weeks for a complete answer. Plenty of time?

Ha, sure. Thanks!!

Not in a hurry, just curious about how Tesla's attention to design may have solved (or dodged) this potential for hassle.
I came super close to installing a wall-mounted J1772 station last month, now I'm happy I didn't.

TEG · Jul 7, 2012

vfx said:
...We know the Model S has an electromagnet that holds the plug into the car...

My assumption has been that the 'electromagnet' pushes a lock pin up into the hole at the bottom of the plug.
So, it would be rather secure... Not something you could just yank to overcome the magnetic force.

TEG · Jul 7, 2012

At Refuel races, I saw (what I assume is a prototype) cable doing J1772 to Model S like this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=7335&d=1341208866.jpg

I assume they took the J1772 to Roadster cable and just put a Model S end on instead.
(I wish we had a term for the new plug besides 'Model S end'.)

I think most of us are assuming the production one will be a one piece adapter (similar to the HCSharp/DWegmul type Roadster adapters) but I think there is a slight chance it could end up being just the cable since that is all Tesla offered for the Roadster.

In any case, the use of this cable at Refuel all but confirms that there doesn't need to be any special electronics between the two.
(So, for instance, no UMC required.)

EchoDelta · Jul 7, 2012

vfx said:
Just that they think they need it.

Won't argue w possibilities - but it is my job to think about plans B and C.

I'll buy you a pizza if I don't use it within 1 yr. So start thinking what sort of pizza you may like to have in 2014!

For example, we go to ski ~80mi away (with hills).

I'm eager to see more widespread adoption of long range EVs and see what that does to neighborhood-level chargers (prob see less use), and to more off beaten path places.

Thanks for the pics of the Refuel J1772-TeslaS adapter .. shows a do it yourself solution is not hard.

And if the plug is held in by a hardware pin-latch (I didnt see one in the chargers in the stores) that solves the security issue. Driving over my current cable makes me sigh, but seems too cheesy a solution for a Tesla!

vfx · Jul 7, 2012

EchoDelta said:
I'll buy you a pizza if I don't use it within 1 yr. So start thinking what sort of pizza you may like to have in 2014!

For example, we go to ski ~80mi away (with hills). ....

I'll take that bet for most people, not just you.

dsm363 · Jul 7, 2012

I've never actually used my J1772 adapter (I didn't try it out once for 5 min to make sure it worked). The places I've traveled either only had them at my destination (not along the way so I charged at RV parks which is faster anyway) or didn't have them at all. It is worth having in the car though in case you need it.

Kevin Sharpe · Jul 8, 2012

TEG said:
I think most of us are assuming the production one will be a one piece adapter (similar to the HCSharp/DWegmul type Roadster adapters) but I think there is a slight chance it could end up being just the cable since that is all Tesla offered for the Roadster.

It will be interesting to see whether a one piece 'can' adaptor is possible given the small size of the Model S connector and the sheer weight of a 80A J1772 connector and cable. Personally I think we will see an adapter cable to avoid a steady stream of cars with ripped out charging connectors.

Robert.Boston · Jul 8, 2012

The J1772 adapter for the Model S ships with the car, per the Specs page:

10 kW capable Universal Mobile Connector with 110 V, 240 V, and J1772 adapters

Kevin Sharpe · Jul 8, 2012

Robert.Boston said:
The J1772 adapter for the Model S ships with the car, per the Specs page:

I don't think that tells us anything about the adapter though.... or am I missing something?

EchoDelta · Jul 8, 2012

vfx said:
I'll take that bet for most people, not just you.

You are on! I'll set a reminder in my calendar. Please do so too.

At the store, a Tesla employee suggested "going to an RV park to charge" instead of toting the J1772 adapter, which seems weird given you would need to carry the whole charging cable AND they will less likely to have food/useful/amenity stuff around than a location where someone invested in a charger. I recommend Tesla brief their sales folks on the chargers and accessories; and have them (or mock units) in-store as much as possible.

Robert.Boston · Jul 8, 2012

I was assuming that the UMC will plug into the J1772 cable at one end, and the Model S at the other. Rather more cable than is needed; a simple adapter would suffice. And, you're right, we haven't heard anything about a simple adapter.

doug · Jul 8, 2012

From all the conversations I've had, the J1772 adapter does not need to be connected to the UMC, and in fact all they really need is a pin to pin adapter. But it's also the case that I haven't seen it yet, so it does remain a bit of an unknown quantity.

EchoDelta said:
At the store, a Tesla employee suggested "going to an RV park to charge" instead of toting the J1772 adapter, which seems weird given you would need to carry the whole charging cable AND they will less likely to have food/useful/amenity stuff around than a location where someone invested in a charger. I recommend Tesla brief their sales folks on the chargers and accessories; and have them (or mock units) in-store as much as possible.

Well, in the US it's probably still the case that RV park NEMA 14-50 outlets are more prevalent than J1772 charging stations. Also those J1772 stations are likely to be limited to 32 A whereas you can pull 40 A on a NEMA 1450 and charge marginally faster.

dsm363 · Jul 8, 2012

Not that it is that big a difference but aren't almost all of the public J1772 stations at 30A? That makes the campgrounds even more attractive if they'll give you a reasonable rate to charge there for a few hours. They are usually confused by what you are asking to do. Think it would be a nice little side business for them in the coming years.

MikeK · Jul 8, 2012

Didn't I hear the J1772 adapter described as a "hockey puck"?

chrissam42 · Jul 8, 2012

A Tesla employee at the Seattle event today told me that you don't need the UMC for J1772 (i.e. same as others have said above), and that it would not lock at the J1772 end. So a hypothetical meanie could unplug you from the power, but wouldn't be able to take the adapter.

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