Auto Pilot Changes already implemented?

Vigile · Dec 2, 2015

I picked up my 85D yesterday (Yay!!) and am ecstatic. However, I think I noticed a change in the Auto Pilot feature.

When I drove from Cincinnati to Columbus in early November on a P90D loaner I used AP for ~50 miles on the highway and I don't think I ever touched the steering wheel. Last night, when I was coming home from pick and dinner I used AP on 275 around Cincinnati and heard a chime and saw a message on the car.

After about 2-3 minutes of not holding the wheel, I heard a chime and that message appeared on the panel. "Hold steering wheel."

Thinking I could ignore it, I did so. After 10-15 seconds it chimed twice and displayed that message again. After another 10-15 seconds it started chiming continuously and the car started to slow down!

I repeated this 3x on the drive home just to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

This DID NOT happen on the P90D.

For reference, my car says it has 2.7.106 software installed.

Anyone else notice this change?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I should note, that simply grabbing the steering wheel for a second or two would clear the message, stop the chime and would reset the 2-3 minute timer.

tezzla · Dec 2, 2015

This is how it has worked from the beginning for my P85D.

msnow · Dec 2, 2015

I don't think it's a change. Mine did that on the original 7.0 release in mid October.

Discoducky · Dec 2, 2015

Agree with others as it is has always worked this way. If the system gets into a state where it believes it cannot keep within the lanes it will start to slow down

Max* · Dec 2, 2015

This is the way it's been since the original release. No change. If Tesla mandated a change, you wouldn't get the "option" to update, it would be forced upon you like in Hong Kong.

mikeash · Dec 2, 2015

If it didn't happen in the P90D it's merely because you never encountered a situation where the autopilot lost confidence. The system is pretty good in a lot of places so that's not too surprising!

gsxdsm · Dec 2, 2015

I think OP is implying a time based nag rather than a loss of confidence nag. If this is true it is a change for the worst. Can you clarify OP??

Vigile · Dec 2, 2015

Yes I am inferring a time based limit. The driving conditions were pretty good. It was dark but the lines were clear and lighting very visible.

Is everyone else on that same specific firmware version already

green1 · Dec 2, 2015

There is no time based nag on .106 for me. However there is a nag any time you enter a curve tighter than some specific radius (unknown what radius) as well as any time it loses confidence.
I've done trips where I had to grab the wheel every 30 seconds, and ones where I've gone 20 minutes without touching it. All depends on the road, the lighting, the angle of the sun, the cleanliness of the windshield, the traffic around, etc, etc.

Max* · Dec 2, 2015

Vigile said:
Yes I am inferring a time based limit. The driving conditions were pretty good. It was dark but the lines were clear and lighting very visible.

Is everyone else on that same specific firmware version already

Once the "place hands on wheel" message is displayed, if you don't "place your hands" on the wheel, it'll start beeping again and again, and then slowing you down. That's not a time based nag, that's it reacting to you ignoring the initial warning.

A time based nag would be the car tells you to place hands on wheel every 10 minutes. And it does not do this.

Vigile · Dec 2, 2015

I understand what a time based nag means. And I was assuming it had added that.

Ill check again after I get home in the day light.

Btw - how does it no when I touch / hold the wheel? Never figured that out?

Max* · Dec 2, 2015

Vigile said:
I understand what a time based nag means. And I was assuming it had added that.

Ill check again after I get home in the day light.

Btw - how does it no when I touch / hold the wheel? Never figured that out?

There's a hidden camera watching your every move.

Just kidding, it senses the torque from the steering wheel. So you just need to nudge it a hair and the warning goes away.

Evee · Dec 2, 2015

It's a nag :/ I've driven for at least 2 hours without it nagging at all. You can ignore this warning if it's actually having trouble with the lines and goes away. But I've seen it display this warning when the lanes couldn't be clearer. And it started to slow down because I ignored it. Nags of this nature should be phased out.

jgs · Dec 2, 2015

On my recent road trip I got the nag a few times when I couldn't discern what AP was worried about, but usually it was pretty obvious. Truth to tell, it's all the same to me since I'm more comfortable resting at least one hand lightly on the wheel most of the time anyhow. (Though sometimes my touch is apparently light enough that the car can't tell I'm there and I get nagged anyway.)

mikeash · Dec 2, 2015

Computer vision is extremely difficult and this stuff is still in very early stages. Just figuring out where the lanes are from a camera is still cutting-edge stuff. The lanes might be extremely clear to you but that doesn't necessarily mean they are to the computer. So far there's been no indication of any time-based nag. If one were added, you'd have to detect it by measuring a consistent fixed time between nags, not just nagging for what looks like clear lane markings.

Max* · Dec 2, 2015

Evee said:
You can ignore this warning if it's actually having trouble with the lines and goes away.

I've driven many miles with AP, and I was never once able to ignore this warning and for it to go away on it's own.

- - - Updated - - -

mikeash said:
Computer vision is extremely difficult and this stuff is still in very early stages. Just figuring out where the lanes are from a camera is still cutting-edge stuff. The lanes might be extremely clear to you but that doesn't necessarily mean they are to the computer. So far there's been no indication of any time-based nag. If one were added, you'd have to detect it by measuring a consistent fixed time between nags, not just nagging for what looks like clear lane markings.

I wouldn't call it "cutting edge". Pretty sure the research dates back a decade at this point, if not at least 5 years.

Muzzman1 · Dec 2, 2015

I recently drove back my new 85D from Nebraska to LA. During that trip at one point it seemed that exactly every 3 mins the system asked me to hold the wheel. I actually called support and asked if this was a new nag system that had been put in place? I rarely experienced this on my P85D. He emphatically said that no such system was in place. Sure enough as my drive continued, and I guess road conditions for AP improved, I went 50mins without any sort of intervention at all.
Long story short, TMC has not put any nags in place, and i hope they never do!

green1 · Dec 2, 2015

Max* said:
I've driven many miles with AP, and I was never once able to ignore this warning and for it to go away on it's own.

That's by design. If it asks for attention, and you don't give it the attention, it now has serious concerns as to whether you are still there, awake, paying attention. At this point the only responsible choice is to continue the nag until you relieve this concern. This allows it to take action in a responsible way by slowing and stopping while still in control, instead of waiting for a time when it really doesn't know what the road does before trying to take action. I have no problem with this design decision. Though I do hope that over time the software gets better such that the initial occurrence requiring your attention becomes less frequent.

Max* · Dec 2, 2015

green1 said:
That's by design. If it asks for attention, and you don't give it the attention, it now has serious concerns as to whether you are still there, awake, paying attention. At this point the only responsible choice is to continue the nag until you relieve this concern. This allows it to take action in a responsible way by slowing and stopping while still in control, instead of waiting for a time when it really doesn't know what the road does before trying to take action. I have no problem with this design decision. Though I do hope that over time the software gets better such that the initial occurrence requiring your attention becomes less frequent.

I understand that, I was commenting to his comment that if you don't touch it, it used to stop nagging. I said I've never experienced that, and I don't think it does that.

green1 · Dec 2, 2015

Max* said:
I understand that, I was commenting to his comment that if you don't touch it, it used to stop nagging. I said I've never experienced that, and I don't think it does that.

You are correct, sorry, I was mostly agreeing with you, maybe my response should have been to his post not yours.

Auto Pilot Changes already implemented?

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