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Thread: Service Manual and Test Tools (electronic)

  1. #21
    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Welding near the gas tank. Replacing in tank fuel pumps, (spark danger). My point is that if you take the proper precautions by securing the electrical supply before working on an electric vehicle, there should be no difference. Owners need to know what that procedure is so that unscheduled repairs can be accomplished safely.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Burch View Post
    I disagree. There are risks for explosion when dealing with fuel lines, for instance...but those are small compared to the risk of electrocution/death if you touch a lead coming from the battery pack. Can you provide an example where servicing an ICE car is equally dangerous?
    I know of a technician who died because his hand was near a (very) high pressure fuel leak. When fuel penetrates the skin and enters the blood stream, it is fatal.
    High voltage electrical is every bit as dangerous. But there is nothing about the voltage of a Tesla that makes it any more or less dangerous than that of Toyota.

  3. #23
    Senior Member strider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
    I seems like Tesla has chosen not to provide this documentation for the Roadster to its customers.
    Well, keep in mind that for the Roadster, all the mechanical stuff you list is the same as the Elise. So suspension, brakes, etc can be referenced in the Lotus manuals so there was/is less of a need. For Model S I agree with you (as I'm sure you saw from my posts in the warranty thread). I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and being patient. Let them get cars out onto the road, staffed up, and into a rhythm and I hope they'll have time to provide this kind of information.
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  4. #24
    Electron Pilot Todd Burch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Welding near the gas tank. Replacing in tank fuel pumps, (spark danger). My point is that if you take the proper precautions by securing the electrical supply before working on an electric vehicle, there should be no difference. Owners need to know what that procedure is so that unscheduled repairs can be accomplished safely.
    ok....I suppose I could accept that argument.
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  5. #25
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Burch View Post
    ok....I suppose I could accept that argument.
    12V batteries hydrogen explode all the time in workshops. Lots of less experienced mechanics get skin, eyes and ears damaged with acid.

  6. #26
    Member colinb's Avatar
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    Not sure if you guys saw this start-up trying to provide you with insight into your car via the diagnostics port - moj.io

  7. #27
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    I think danger is a good reason *for* publishing a service manual.

  8. #28
    Electron Pilot Todd Burch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vfx View Post
    12V batteries hydrogen explode all the time in workshops. Lots of less experienced mechanics get skin, eyes and ears damaged with acid.
    Yep...battery exploded on my grandfather years ago. Luckily he only received minor burns. But that is a far cry from instant death. Again, not trying to staunchly defend one side or the other--just want to make sure that we stay honest with ourselves and not claim that working on ICEs is just as potentially fatal if it really isn't. It may be--it may not be. We just don't have statistics to back anything up.
    P85 VIN55228. Black and tan w/ Carbon Fiber decor, spoiler, coils, Pano, Reus audio (To be installed), 20" Avant Garde M310s (Matte Black), tech, parking sensors, premium lighting.
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  9. #29
    Happy Model S Owner
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
    What the documentation will provide is all the procedures for doing normal maintenance.
    Exactly.
    Sure, the battery will go back to Tesla for service no matter who pulls it from the car. The same can be said for the motor or speed controller. Those are big tasks and should seldom be required.
    What is required are annual services and the like. Bleeding the air from the battery cooling system probably involves multiple bleed points with the coolant circulation pump running. Anyone know how to turn it on or where the bleed points are? Brake fluid should be swapped periodically to prevent moisure build up in the system. Some car's ABS components allow for suction or pressure bleeding while others require the use of a test tool to actuate some of the ABS solenoids. Those are but two of what I would guess would be a long list of very pedestrian maintenance functions that do not get anywhere near high voltage or opening battery packs or motors.
    There is, mind you, no legal requirement for Tesla to release this basic maintenance information at all... but see below.

    This really is just normal stuff. I'm surprised there is such a reverence within the Tesla community and that their have not been more calls for proper documentation. This is not rocket science; that's the other company. Hopefully this is one thing that will change (for the better) with the Model S being a production volume car.
    If Tesla simply doesn't release the information for doing basic maintenance, then Tesla cannot claim that requiring the maintenance is "reasonable". Under the federal Warranty Act, Tesla cannot require that you use their branded service before they honor their warranty. So, if Tesla never tells you what maintenance needs to be done annually, and you don't buy Tesla's maintenance service, then Tesla has to provide warranty coverage anyway, even if you don't do the maintenance and the damage is caused by lack of maintenance, because they never told you what maintenance needed to be done.

    George B., however, has claimed that Tesla will deny warranty coverage to people who don't buy Tesla's branded service. The fact that this is in contradiction to the law has been hashed out before.

    Tesla should just release the manuals for people to perform their own annual maintenance if they want to (and stop claiming that people need to buy the service plan). They have a little under a year to release the manuals before the first "annual service" is due.

    (Edit: it is in fact legal for Tesla's stated maintenance procedures to require tools which are not easily available. But they should at least tell people; some people will go out of their way and obtain the tools.)
    I take "Electro", my amazing Model S, to the train station: yes, it's a station wagon

  10. #30
    Senior Member lolachampcar's Avatar
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    NERODEN.... very well put. I beleive there is a legal requirement to make special tools available to independant shops including specialty electronic test tools (or documentation on the interface, if not the tool itself).

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