170ah = 138.72 kWh
150ah = 123.00 kWh
I may be mixed up tho. Here is what Bard explained the both as.
150 = ah
170 = watt-hours per kilogram (Wh/kg)
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170ah = 138.72 kWh
150ah = 123.00 kWh
Yeah this is the calculation. (Nominal voltage * Ah capacity = Wh capacity) And it's probably pretty close. However, in these documents, sometimes it's a bit off. For example, for Model 3 Performance it is 235Ah*360V = 84.6kWh. For the Hummer EV it's WAY off (238kWh; probably due to some pack being locked out). So only "in the ballpark." All the same, in this case it looks likely to be close to correct, and to me it seems ~123kWh is a virtual certainty with what we know now, not 129kWh as I thought (primarily to make the charging efficiency work out well). (Sad)170ah = 138.72 kWh
150ah = 123.00 kWh
Nice 'Battery Specific Energy' comparison in Troy Teslike X/Twitter post.I may be mixed up tho. Here is what Bard explained the both as.
150 = ah
170 = watt-hours per kilogram (Wh/kg)
View attachment 996468
Energy density at the pack level:
• 187 Wh/kg Model S/X 18650 cells
• 170 Wh/kg Cybertruck 4680 cells
• 169 Wh/kg Rivian R1T Large Pack 2170 cells
• 165 Wh/kg Model 3/Y Long Range 2170 cells
• 126 Wh/kg Model 3 Standard Range LFP cells
Without the highway data, you can draw a somewhat inconclusive conclusion when comparing the udds from the LR MY 450.93 to the CT 429.76 and get 314 miles. However, the RWD MY is 420.01 miles which would be 307 miles!!! And higher than the Model y AWD 380.82 miles which would translate to 279 miles (spot on). The 2021 MY RWD was 356.82 miles which translates to 260 miles (listed at 244 back then). So makes you Wonder about the RWD MY and what Battery is in there with the 260 mile estimated range from the 420 udds range. Something doesn’t add up.Also relevant (also pointed out & linked elsewhere) for this thread, since it is half the info that the EPA tests will have:
Google: "california air resources board executive orders passenger vehicles"
New Vehicle and Engine Certification: Executive Orders for Light-Duty Vehicles | California Air Resources Board
The New Vehicle and Engine Certification Program is responsible for the certification of new engines, vehicles, powertrains, aerodynamic devices and other new certifications. Vehicles and engines may be sold and otherwise produced in California only if approved by Executive Order (EO) after...ww2.arb.ca.gov
Cybertruck AWD (429.76 miles):
Cybertruck Beast (418.82 miles):
These give charge-depleting (probably 123kWh or so but TBD!) UDDS results (half of the EPA test - this is the "city" part). In my opinion (it's not known yet) these results are what is obtained with the R/T (A/T) tires on the vehicle. (So these would produce the 318mi/301mi ranges for CT.)
As outlined elsewhere, reasonable to assume about 90%-92% of the UDDS result for Highway result. (Have to wait for EPA result to know for sure.)
Then you do: 0.7*(0.55*UDDS + 0.45*HWYFE) to get the EPA range.
Tesla will scale this up by 0.767/0.7 (roughly) to give the actual EPA range. (When normalizing results this range expansion should be backed out (multiply by 0.7/0.767) since it is not applicable to best-case range results for the most part (it's a valid and legal expansion of EPA rated range (which does not represent range, really), but it represents improved performance relative to a 0.7 scaled result, in sub-optimal conditions, where range will be nowhere near the max rated range).)
Yeah this one doesn’t add up. But on the other hand they arguably haven’t sold it since it’s not on the EPA website (I don’t pay close attention to MY but I sure this is relatively easy to work through- they can sell a prior version).makes you Wonder about the RWD MY and what Battery is in there with the 260 mile estimated range from the 420 udds range. Something doesn’t add up.
Th RWD MY is for sale right now and is available for test drives.Yeah this one doesn’t add up. But on the other hand they arguably haven’t sold it since it’s not on the EPA website (I don’t pay close attention to MY but I sure this is relatively easy to work through- they can sell a prior version).
For the others, please quote the range normalized to 0.7, not the EPA range. (This is easy to determine, just look up the data.)
It’s hard to make comparisons and assess the estimates accurately otherwise. It would be very confusing!!!
I think it’ll all be within a couple percent. Obviously it is accurate exactly as long as Highway range is 90% or 92%, and this estimate will not always be exactly correct. But if it is, it’s just math.
When did I say they weren’t selling the RWD MY??? I most definitely did not say that (see above!).Th RWD MY is for sale right now and is available for test drives.
"they arguably haven't sold it since it's not on the EPA website" not quite sure how I am supposed to take that with regards to what is currently for sale. The CARB doc is for the 2023 RWD MY. What they have been selling is the 2023 RWD MY. Based on the CARB doc, the 260 miles EPA estimate is way off base.When did I say they weren’t selling the RWD MY??? I most definitely did not say that (see above!).
Like I said, they can sell any of the versions they have previously tested and as long as they state the mileage correctly for what they are selling, all is well.
There is no EPA rating for the Model Y you reference (at least, not yet). When there is, there will be no mystery.
You can also do the math with what we know, and get a really good estimate of the battery size. It’s not magic.
Yes. This indicates that they are not the same vehicle. (Not surprisingly, as those appellations lack specificity.)Based on the CARB doc, the 260 miles EPA estimate is way off base.
The 2021 MY RWD was 356.82 miles which translates to 260 miles (listed at 244 back then)
LR MY 450.93
No idea how you did this - this gives using the formula with estimate of 92% highway (not looking up actual value) which result in scalar 0.675:and get 314 miles
Similarly, 284 miles. No idea actual rating.the RWD MY is 420.01 miles which would be 307 miles!!!
Ok, your formulas are above my level of knowledge right now (and are likely covered way more in depth in other posts and frums )so I am just using the UDDS rating for the LR AWD compared to its EPA rating and then using that ratio with the UDDS rating of the RWD MY from 2021. That spits out 260 which is what the current RWD MY is estimated to be, not 244. If you use the same LR AWD ratio with the 2023 RWD MY you get over 300 miles.I have no idea where you are getting this - this translates to about 240 miles.
See above modified post.Ok, your formulas are above my level of knowledge right now (and are likely covered way more in depth in other posts and frums )so I am just using the UDDS rating for the LR AWD compared to its EPA rating and then using that ratio with the UDDS rating of the RWD MY from 2021. That spits out 260 which is what the current RWD MY is estimated to be, not 244. If you use the same LR AWD ratio with the 2023 RWD MY you get over 300 miles.
There is a discrepancy between CARB and EPA on the 2023 MY LR AWD. (It's 450 in the carb and 446 in the EPA). Not a big deal but worth noting.Without the highway data, you can draw a somewhat inconclusive conclusion when comparing the udds from the LR MY 450.93 to the CT 429.76 and get 314 miles. However, the RWD MY is 420.01 miles which would be 307 miles!!! And higher than the Model y AWD 380.82 miles which would translate to 279 miles (spot on). The 2021 MY RWD was 356.82 miles which translates to 260 miles (listed at 244 back then). So makes you Wonder about the RWD MY and what Battery is in there with the 260 mile estimated range from the 420 udds range. Something doesn’t add up.