Didn't know what his political orientation was but for sure the group of folks who regard human rights articulations as BS tend to be authoritarian promoters. Since he blew me off and refused to clarify his position I don't know what it is, perhaps he simply saying that the United Nations is bs. Either way, not a good look in the dialogue Department.
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Politics - Quarantine Thread
- Thread starter steve841
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I learned a long time ago there hare no discussions with snowflakes. You have the right to your opinion, and I have not right to make you justify your your thoughts. Life is way to short to fight over stuff that makes no difference on ones death bed.
Yeah, why not throw the whole LGBTQ+ community on the heap too, now that we're talking about generalising.
I cannot remember Elon ever saying anything negative about gays or lesbians. I don't think he has any problems with transgenders either, I feel he is very much the 'live and let live'-type and believes everyone should determine their own destiny. But he is not a fan of the he/she discussion, even mocking it. I believe that's because he feels it is being forced upon society. That standpoint is shared by a lot of Americans and Europeans.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Which anyone the least bit sensitive to the gay/trans community knows is going to be seen as negative. Once again it's needlessly punching down on marginalized members of society. Being "forced" to use a preferred pronoun is far from the soul crushing hardship Elon and others want to pretend. Rather pathetic when the (formerly) richest man in the world chooses that as an "important" issue to complain about and it says a lot about character.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
It's the forced part. I'll never be forced on anything speech. Period.
I'll refer to someone by their name in order to be respectful and find common ground, but you won't "force" your pronouns on me.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
To add to this, I’d be pretty pissed if a bunch of bullies were co-opting my culture or affinity to mask their abhorrent behavior.
In my case we call these bolsheviks, JINO’s.
You must be reading a totally different Twitter timeline of Elon's tweets. Nobody is forcing him or anyone else to do anything. Being a nice human being and respecting others isn't difficult.
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. It's called respecting others. If using a she instead of a he or vice-versa is so difficult, then I'd hate to see the worst that people have endured in their lives.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
No, it's not just about "respect". It's a way for some people to get other people to say things that they honestly, truly, don't believe.
I'm a physician, and I still don't believe that BIOLOGICAL gender change is real. Someone may cut up their body, pump hormones into their body, but in the end that person's DNA is still genetically male, or genetically female. If it were a real BIOLOGICAL problem, it would not have become a societal fad in the past 10 years, and would exist to the same general degree in other countries. Even among medical professionals, gender dysphoria (the proper scientific term) is classified as a psychological disorder, according to the DSM V.
So no, someone forcing me to say something that I don't think is really a BIOLOGICAL fact. That's compelled speech, and I won't be forced to do it. Laws can be passed, and I still won't do it.
I WILL RESPECT that these individuals don't agree with me, and I will user their NAME when addressing them. But I won't have pronouns forced upon me for which I have a core, fundamental, disagreement about the validity of.
But who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell a person who they are or are not? Doctors above all others should have the MOST compassion. Again nobody is forcing you to do anything. That's made up. You have a CHOICE to be respectful and compassionate or not.
You're a physician and don't understand that gender is a societal construct? You know gender isn't the same thing as sex, right? It seems like you should know the difference as a physician, so I'm genuinely curious and tone can be hard to detect via text so I'm just trying to understand why you phrased it the way you did.
I think the misunderstanding of gender vs sex has led to a lot of misunderstanding around this issue.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
The corollary argument is who are they to FORCE something upon me to which I disagree?
That's why I will refer to them by NAME. It's a respectable compromise where both sides, objectively, should not be offended.
And like I said.. nobody is forcing you to do anything. That's just an excuse that people use.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
You should respect @bkp_duke right to use someone’s name as a compromise to identitarian doublespeak.
SDRick
Active Member
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
I've said it before and I will say it again: this controversy isn't about gender as a societal construct, but more about gender as a language construct. Not all languages distinguish between genders in personal pronouns. Get rid of the distinction by creating a new pronoun that is gender neutral, to be used when you either don't know or don't wish to reveal the gender of the person you are talking about, and it goes away. It's kind of "tacky" to have to say "he or she" all the time when you're dealing with this scenario (for example, you don't know who did something) anyway. English does not distinguish gender in the first person (I, we) or the second person (you) at all. It only does so in the third person and only in the case of a singular subject or object. And all of this is just because English (and the Romance and Germanic languages it is closely related to) happened to evolve this way. But language isn't static, it is dynamic and it changes and evolves, so someone should make a change and eliminate the issue. Then the only time this would ever become an issue is if you're specifically talking about someone's gender, which you do not need to do when you're merely talking about that person for another reason. Another advantage of this is that native speakers of languages which do not distinguish gender in spoken pronouns (i.e. Mandarin Chinese) will stop accidentally interchanging "he" and "she" when they do not mean to.
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