Fisker Karma

[tftf]

The logistics of reconfiguring the Karma would be far more costly than just starting from scratch or buying a glider from Lotus(or another car company).
.

Apparently Wanxiang won the Fisker bid, their presentation:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/19...how_recommendations=false&view_mode=slideshow

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/15/us-fisker-auction-idUSBREA1E04B20140215

Since Wanxiang also owns A123 (or what's left of it) the same battery tech can be used. So a restart is here for the Karma and the Destino.

I see this as good news for Fisker, especially if they can finally finish and produce the smaller Gen II car asap.

Wanxiang has the cash, supply chain expertise and distribution channels, especially in Asia.

 

[ggr]

I see this as good news for Fisker, especially if they can finally finish and produce the smaller Gen II car asap. Wanxiang has the cash, supply chain expertise and distribution channels, especially in Asia.

What they don't have is a car factory. The Karma was produced elsewhere (Saab in Sweden? I think), but the factory for the Atlantic in Delaware(?) was never even started.

 

[AlMc]

What they don't have is a car factory. The Karma was produced elsewhere (Saab in Sweden? I think), but the factory for the Atlantic in Delaware(?) was never even started.

Correct. Delaware gave Fisker huge tax breaks to take over an old GM plant that was to be used for the Atlantic. I am hoping that TM may eventually need an east coast plant and relocate there!

 

[wycolo]

'All electric' Karma would have no engine/generator so trade that weight for batteries, especially 18650s in several liquid cooled packs. It is a big car so lots of space would be freed up. [Parked next to my Roadster it was HUGE.] Hope they give it a shot.
--

 

[dennis]

What they don't have is a car factory. The Karma was produced elsewhere (Saab in Sweden? I think), but the factory for the Atlantic in Delaware(?) was never even started.

The Karma was built by Valmet in Finland, a contract manufacturer who built cars for Saab and Porsche in the past.

 

[AlMc]

'All electric' Karma would have no engine/generator so trade that weight for batteries, especially 18650s in several liquid cooled packs. It is a big car so lots of space would be freed up. [Parked next to my Roadster it was HUGE.] Hope they give it a shot.
--

The local (Wilmington, Delaware) Jag dealer sold and serviced the Fisker. I was in the market for a hybrid or EV that was more 'sporty' than what was offered by other manufacturers so we test drove one. Big, heavy car with the battery pack down the middle of the interior of the car.....I was a little disappointed so did a 'google' search and found this company called Tesla. Scheduled a test drive in DC (closest store at the time). Much more refined than the Karma. Immediately put down a deposit even though the Karma was 'on sale' for 30% off the original price.

 

[wycolo]

I didn't even sit in the Karma at the dealer's much less ride in it. And I didn't test drive the Roadster either but I think the salesman drove me around in it. I had come for the Tesla and my mind was already made up. :biggrin:
--

 

[AnOutsider]

This is good news for Fisker IMO. The other group (mainly the originals in new guise) seemed a bit too fishy. Hopefully they can move forward and put good vehicles on the road. Right now the closest target is likely the ELR and that should be easy to beat.

 

[dsm363]

There seemed to be enough people who loved the look. If they could improve on the engineering and performance it might work.

 

[tftf]

What they don't have is a car factory. The Karma was produced elsewhere (Saab in Sweden? I think), but the factory for the Atlantic in Delaware(?) was never even started.

See the Scribd PDF link I posted above, they can restart using the VL plants (Finland, then US), the Q2 2014 restart however sounds ambitious imho.

Even more interesting are the yet unkown Gen II (Atlantic) and X launch dates. Wanxiang is a sleeping giant if it forward-integrates and enters the higher-end markets outside of China.

Both Wanxiang and Richard Li (Hybrid, the other bidder) said they would later use Fisker's assembly plant in Delaware, per US DOE rules that the company had to maintain manufacturing in America.

PS: As I posted elsewhere: I see many battery suppliers and consumer electronics companies entering the EV space with their own cars and brands over the coming years, especially Asian companies. One example could be Samsung. Wanxiang is one of the first and have it easier thanks to their vast EV experience (PDF overview): http://www.wanxiang.com/Wanxiang EV_general.pdf

 

[tftf]

It looks official now. AP:

A Delaware bankruptcy judge has approved the sale of the remaining assets of failed electric-vehicle maker Fisker Automotive to Chinese auto-parts conglomerate Wanxiang Group.
In an auction stretching over three days last week, Wanxiang beat out Hybrid Technology, led by Hong Kong billionaire Richard Li, with a final bid of $149.2 million in cash and other considerations.
The judge approved the asset sale at a court hearing Tuesday.

Also on Bloomberg:

Fisker Wins Court Approval to Sell Assets to Wanxiang - Bloomberg

It's not sure if the logo and name are also included or if these need to be handed over in a separate transaction. But maybe Wanxiang even wants to starts under a new brand (?).

 

[stopcrazypp]

It's not sure if the logo and name are also included or if these need to be handed over in a separate transaction. But maybe Wanxiang even wants to starts under a new brand (?).

I remember that Fisker's brand is still owned by Fisker Coachbuild and given Henrik never wanted Wanxiang to own the company (he strongly partnered with Hybrid Tech), it's certainly a possibility Fisker Coachbuild will not transfer the rights to the name.

 

[tftf]

I remember that Fisker's brand is still owned by Fisker Coachbuild and given Henrik never wanted Wanxiang to own the company (he strongly partnered with Hybrid Tech), it's certainly a possibility Fisker Coachbuild will not transfer the rights to the name.

You are correct:

Fisker Coachbuild attorneys have now put the bankruptcy court on official notice about their ownership of these key assets, and it's unclear if this news will affect the actions of leading bidders Wanxiang America, Inc. and Hybrid Tech Holdings. Coachbuild does sound somewhat conciliatory, saying "...it is likely that Coachbuild will consent to the assignment of the rights provided for under the Trademark Agreement as part of the proposed sale" while simultaneously "reserving its rights under applicable law to bar the assumption and assignment of Trademark Agreement without its prior written consent."

Fisker asset sale may not include name, logo - Autoblog

With all the bad news surrounding the company and the car over the past months maybe it's better to start off under a completely new name anyway. They don't intend to sell a lot of Karmas (or Destinos, is Bob Lutz even that interested after all the delays?) going forward, the main focus seems to be on the Gen II vehicle (former "Atlantic").

 

[dennis]

See the Scribd PDF link I posted above, they can restart using the VL plants (Finland, then US), the Q2 2014 restart however sounds ambitious imho.

Even more interesting are the yet unkown Gen II (Atlantic) and X launch dates. Wanxiang is a sleeping giant if it forward-integrates and enters the higher-end markets outside of China.

Both Wanxiang and Richard Li (Hybrid, the other bidder) said they would later use Fisker's assembly plant in Delaware, per US DOE rules that the company had to maintain manufacturing in America.

Per pg. 8 of the .pdf you linked to, Wanxiang's plan is to restart Karma production at Valmet in Finland (contract manufacturer not associated with VL), and then move production to VL's facility in Auburn Hills MI (not Delaware).

- - - Updated - - -

They don't intend to sell a lot of Karmas (or Destinos, is Bob Lutz even that interested after all the delays?) going forward, the main focus seems to be on the Gen II vehicle (former "Atlantic").

Their presentation to the Creditors Committee said that they would restart Karma production 2H14, re-establish the dealer network, and provide replacement parts to current owners at cost (in lieu of reinstating warranties on existing cars). I do think Lutz is still interested because VL needs to get some return on the investment they have made in engineering the Destino.

 

[tftf]

Per pg. 8 of the .pdf you linked to, Wanxiang's plan is to restart Karma production at Valmet in Finland (contract manufacturer not associated with VL), and then move production to VL's facility in Auburn Hills MI (not Delaware).

I understood it this way: Restart (limited) Karma production in Finland and then at VL. Later, produce a new Gen II car ("Atlantic") and other future cars in Delaware. But I could be wrong (?).

From a timing perspective, this could also make sense since the (now mothballed) plant in Delaware and the Gen II car would have to be finished and ready for mass-production first.

Update: Found another source reading it this way:

Attorneys for Wanxiang couldn’t say what the company plans to do with the plant but did disclose that the company will pay the outstanding property and school taxes of $1.1 million to New Castle County at closing.

In a Wanxiang business proposal outlined last month, the company expressed interest in opening the Delaware plant to manufacturer the second generation of Fisker vehicles.

The 3.5 million square foot building is a former General Motors plant and was acquired by Fisker in 2009 to be the company’s major North American manufacturing hub.

Fisker goes to the highest bidder, future in Delaware still unclear — NewsWorks

 

[brianman]

Boxwood Road plant in Newport, Delaware

Is this plant and location at all interesting to Tesla? It would be a remarkable thing for Tesla to make an offer on the plant to Wanxiang just as a PR move alone -- for both companies.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I would think that the Fisker brand is not a good one to keep around. Wanxiang should get a new name for it.

 

[tftf]

Some more details via the new owners:

Chinese auto parts giant Wanxiang plans to “immediately” restart production of the Fisker Karma as soon as the deal is closed to acquire the beleaguered electric car startup, the head of Wanxiang America, Pin Li, told me in an interview. The deal is expected to close in the next 30 to 60 days, and Wanxiang partly won the $149 million bid in recent days because it could get production started back up quickly.

When I asked Li about Fisker’s planned second car, the Atlantic, he said that Wanxiang would do the best it can to move toward production but that it was probably still years away from getting to the market. Li also said that Wanxiang would likely still use the Fisker and Karma brands to sell these new cars.

Wanxiang plans to immediately restart production of the Fisker Karma Tech News and Analysis

I wish them good luck, but I don't know how many customers are still/again waiting for the Karma after all the turmoil - could also depend on modifications and various improvements to the battery and onboard displays in the 2014 version, maybe even a slight weight reduction (?).

PS: The 30-60 days waiting period is just a legal formality afaik.

 

[wycolo]

The name Wanx comes to mind. :biggrin:

 

[tftf]

Summary of Wanxiang's plans:

Creditors were delighted to see Wanxiang's bid, according to attorney William Baldiga, whose law firm represented creditors. "The value is six times what [Fisker] said it was worth when it filed for bankruptcy," Baldiga said, describing the negotiations as "two and a half days of yelling, screaming, bidding."

In documents that Wanxiang filed with the federal court in January, Wanxiang mentioned a three-phase plan: building a hatchback version of the Fisker Atlantic (pictured above); restarting production of the Karma at Valmet in Finland, the plant where all the Karmas have so far been built; and then moving production to VL Automotive's manufacturing facility in Michigan. That means Bob Lutz, ex-General Motors vice chairman, could come back into the picture. In the first part of 2013, Lutz and Wanxiang tried to purchase Fisker. Lutz has as ownership stake in VL Automotive and wants to put small-block Corvette V8 engines into Karma bodies, calling the resulting vehicle the Destino. Wanxiang has said VL is the "soul of Fisker," so now that the company has the body, the revival can't be far behind.

Wanxiang wants to restart Fisker Karma production as quickly as possible

PS: Loved the description of the bidding process