Would you be interested in an AP 2.0 retrofit?

[supratachophobia]

I thought that with the recent article about AP 2.0 hardware possibly being out in the wild now or soon, it would be a good time to let Tesla know that many of us would be severely interested in a hardware retrofit package. Of course, we still don't know what the additional features or improvements will be exactly, but I think we can all agree it will be better and impressive.

Currently, I would imagine such a retrofit could affect nearly 100k cars so this wouldn't exactly be a niche market for Tesla. Keep in mind, we should not expect Tesla to offer something that isn't covering their costs 100% (labor/parts/R&D for retrofit). Unlike pre-AP cars, the cars with current AP already have the most crucial interfaces setup (throttle, brake, steering). You'd simply be adding more sensors for the processing of those commands to control the inputs.

In closing, I completely understand that the hardware requirements could be expensive and numerous. By my estimation, we have at least a couple more cameras (same area), rear camera, different windshield, and added radar units (may require additional wiring harnesses). But we'd still like to know the cost and the feasibility so that it can be the owner's choice. One of the huge concerns for owners is product obsolescence. And having to sell a car with outdated technology with no chance of changing will affect resale values tremendously. By at least offering an upgrade path, you help stabilize those resale values to some extent.

 

[Max*]

For me it boils down to this: If AP2.0 = Level 3 autonomous (hands off wheel, don't pay attention until the car tells me to take over) then hell yeah I'd be interested (but cost might be a limiting factor. I'm not spending $25k to upgrade my AP1.0 car to semi-autonomous). If AP2.0 = better Level 2, then no. AP1.0 is a good enough Level 2 system that I don't need a better Level 2 system.

 

[syswei]

Yes, depending on cost vs capabilities.

 

[mikeash]

Assuming it's much more capable and doesn't cost a completely insane amount, very much yes.

My car was built in February 2015, though, so I'm not optimistic about the chances.

 

[supratachophobia]

Assuming it's much more capable and doesn't cost a completely insane amount, very much yes.

My car was built in February 2015, though, so I'm not optimistic about the chances.

I'm also the same build date and highly doubt they would have started including the required wiring harnesses by then. But again, id like a reasonable cost. They have pricing on wiring harness replacement now, so there is precedent to some extent.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Is the pope catholic? Is water wet? Would Sir Guacamolaf be interested in an AP2 retrofit at a reasonable cost? Is Kanye West an ass?

Who comes up with such questions really!

 

[RAW84]

I'm happy with my AP and wouldn't pay a fair market value to upgrade it to the next iteration.


I'll save my money for when I'm ready to upgrade the entire car.

 

[robby]

I drive 1.5 hrs/day, value time above almost anything, and keep my cars until they die. If the new sensor suite brings level 3 autonomy and regulators accept it, it's hard to imagine a price I would not pay, short of it literally being cheaper to buy a new car. Even if it were something outrageous, like $30k, you're talking less than $10 per hour over 150k miles to reclaim that time and be much more productive with it.

Real autonomy will be a game changer for anyone who feels similarly, and Tesla (or a third party) will have plenty of economic incentive to provide an upgrade path.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

@robby you already agree with me .. I can tell .. but .. I doubt we will see real autonomy in AP2. I think AP2 will be better just better AP.

Example -

- It'll stay in lanes better
- It may take exits after you program it in GPS (and won't need you to do turn by turn signals)
- It may detect red/green lights.
.. etc.

It still won't,
- Work in a snowstorm or rain
- Detect potholes
- Take responsibility off of you.
- Give you anymore uninterrupted time back in your life.

When they come out with true autonomy, i.e. steering wheel and pedals optional, Yeah honestly, time is money (and money is the root of all evil, so waste time), I'd buy a new car at that point. But I really really doubt AP2 will save me any more "time" than AP1 already does.

and in reality .. that's 5-10 years away, as long as they figure it out before I get old and krinkly, I'm good.

 

[supratachophobia]

Is the pope catholic? Is water wet? Would Sir Guacamolaf be interested in an AP2 retrofit at a reasonable cost? Is Kanye West an ass?

Who comes up with such questions really!

I hope it doesn't end up being 30k, but I'm in the same boat as you as far as attitude goes.

 

[Max*]

- It may detect red/green lights.

This was promised for AP1.0

 

[Max*]

and in reality .. that's 5-10 years away, as long as they figure it out before I get old and krinkly, I'm good.

If by 5-10 you mean 5, than yes I agree. Ford promised it's first autonomous car in 2021. Ford is a big company, so less likely to miss the deadline.
Mercedes is doing autonmous testing on it's 2017 (?) car in Neveda.
etc.

Level 3 autonomy is closer than you think.

Level 4, no pedal, no steering wheel, I agree, that's not that close, but within reach.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

^^ Yeah at 30K I'd pass. I'd be very slightly jealous of AP2.0, but I'll have 300 $100 bills to wipe my tears with.

@Max* yeah I hope it is still coming. They also promised auto-take exit when you turn signal .. I think I read somewhere that 8.0 has that .. even for AP1 cars. Also recent tweets about them changing wavelength and detecting smaller objects tells me that our AP1 cars will continue to improve for the next 2 years or so .. and frankly thats all I can ask for.

Also the reason I said 5-10 years - GOVERNMENT!

 

[Max*]

Yeah the goberment crawls at a snails pace.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Here is one way to add more time in your life, this works way better than even Tesla Autopilot. Stay off of TMC.
(Sir G back to work!)

 

[fallen888]

You needed a poll for this? I think it's pretty obvious way most people on this forum would go.

 

[mikeash]

As I see it, there are three main areas where AP1 is lacking on the hardware front:

1. Limited frontal sensors. We have one radar and one camera with a fixed focal length. Multiple cameras with multiple focal lengths would give the car a much better idea of where things are ahead and would help detect things like trailers.
2. No long range sensors in directions other than forward. This is why the car needs human intervention to change lanes, and can't handle stop signs or stoplights by itself.
3. No redundancy. If the radar or camera dies, the driver needs to take over immediately. That means that the driver needs to be ready to take over at all times.

No idea what AP2 might add here....

 

[ShadowR55]

Product obsolescence is the only thing hindering a few people that I know from ordering cars. Everyone including myself is worried about resale value taking such a large hit, that's why I pushed my order back. It's not worth the fuel savings when your losing your @$$ on resale because your car is considered a tech device now.

 

[Saghost]

As I see it, there are three main areas where AP1 is lacking on the hardware front:

1. Limited frontal sensors. We have one radar and one camera with a fixed focal length. Multiple cameras with multiple focal lengths would give the car a much better idea of where things are ahead and would help detect things like trailers.
2. No long range sensors in directions other than forward. This is why the car needs human intervention to change lanes, and can't handle stop signs or stoplights by itself.
3. No redundancy. If the radar or camera dies, the driver needs to take over immediately. That means that the driver needs to be ready to take over at all times.

No idea what AP2 might add here....

Since we don't know what AP2 is, it's a little hard to say what it might add.

The triple camera would do a few things - it'd be able to see to the front-side for things like turns and stop signs and red lights. The cameras are also somewhat redundant - although each has its own role and speciality, they can substitute for one another to some extent, which would permit a degraded failsafe operational mode if one sensor abruptly quits.

I'm also thinking that Tesla would at least run the backup camera through the AP computer when they made the rest of the changes, which would allow the car to detect overtaking traffic, and thus open the door to truly automated lane changes following Navigation.

It'd still be a level 3 system or possibly a very advanced level 2, but it'd be far more capable than today's car is (once the firmware and DNNs are adequately developed, of course.)

 

[supratachophobia]

This was promised for AP1.0

To be fair, it can see red lights and stop signs. Whether it does anything about them is a completely different story.