I talked to my service rep, who happens to be a big time motorhead/speed geek, and he said he has driven P85D ludicrous cars and the difference between them and P90D cars is not noticeable. He said that the performance improvement should be 95-99% of what you would get with a P90D. He told me there was no way he would pay for the battery upgrade. Just get the ludicrous upgrade, not the ludicrous plus 90 battery. I got the feeling from him that it was either a typo or maybe Tesla was just being super cautious about overpromising since the motor hp controversy (nontroversy, IMO).
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Will the ludicrous upgrade improve P85D performance by only 0.2 seconds?
- Thread starter electrish
- Start date
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- Tags
- Driving Dynamics Model S
siucity
Button Pusher
Nope, the doctor said P85D with ludicrous.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
We need more info (communication) from Tesla, though. :wink:
sillydriver
Member
I see what you did there: compared with the P90D ludicrous, the difference will hopefully not be noticeable.
whitex
Well-Known Member
First the announcement from Elon: "[Ludicrous Mode] ...results in is a 10% improvement in the 0 to 60 mph time to 2.8 secs and a quarter mile time of 10.9 secs. Time to 155 mph is improved even more, resulting in a 20% reduction.This option will cost $10k for new buyers. In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor.". Then collect non-refundable deposit. Then add a disclaimer that it will not do what they originally told you - that's not a clarification, that is a change in specs. Bait and switch is a form of fraud in the US which I doubt Tesla would want to engage in - I suspect they will just issue a refund to those who request it, especially that it doesn't take a lawyers or money to refuse payment, simply calling the credit card company would start a fraud dispute.
Personally I don't need any faster 0-60. I placed the deposit down to get 30-80 power boost, which I originally expected to be a free sw update unleashing the advertised 691hp. At over $8,000 (after tax) only 0.2s 5-60 (car is not at 0 with at 1ft rollout) the upgrade is absolutely not worth it. Not sure whether this is a com issue, or did it turn out in testing that even with the bigger fuse, 85KWh battery simply cannot provide any more power. We already know pre-ludicrous the battery cannot source enough power for originally advertised 691hp (simple power calculation using max old fuse current and battery voltage will show you that). If ludicrous for P85D is only adding some 55hp (10% increase) in some very limited conditions, then at best it should be a free upgrade to all P85D's that were ordered when 691hp was advertised as a gesture of good faith (maybe ask for a liability release for the 691hp in exchange). No, I was not part of "the letter", but in the direction things are going I'm starting to feel partial to their message. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, let's see what happens by the time the upgrade will actually become available.
let's see what happens by the time the upgrade will actually become available.
I agree, let's wait and see how the actual upgrade performs and let's not start another disappointment discussion.
It's a shame though that Tesla just can't seem to be able to communicate clearly.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. He said P85DL and P90DL were indistinguishable. He also said both were very noticeably faster on the top end than the non Ludicrous P85D. He said that falling on your face feeling above 60 just doesn't happen in either of the Ludicrous cars. They pull HARD past 100mph.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
This would be my gut instinct as something like a 6% increase in pack capacity should not have a significant impact on performance provided Tesla is not software limiting said performance.
Given that no one has yet to achieve Tesla's claimed ten second quarter mile time, I'm going to wait and see exactly what both variants do in the real world before moving forward with an L upgrade.
Given that no one has yet to achieve Tesla's claimed ten second quarter mile time, I'm going to wait and see exactly what both variants do in the real world before moving forward with an L upgrade.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Unless the new battery configuration and chemistry has lower internal resistance and/or higher nominal voltage. Lower internal resistance means less voltage drop at high currents, which means higher voltage at the output, and power = voltage * current. Higher internal resistance also means more power is dissipated in the battery, which heats up the battery faster, which could further increase internal resistance (so even more heating and lower output voltage) and of course at some point it would cause software to impose safety and/or battery longevity limits on the battery output.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am an electrical engineer and I happen to specialize in power management for battery powered devices (small device like phones and tablets, not cars) so I have some clue about this topic.
They would have to gut P85D performance, if P85D"L" had .2 seconds by 60mph, was traveling at a faster rate of speed, and wasn't able to carry that speed without losing it, and them some, in the rest of the quarter. That's the only way the quarter drops by .2 seconds and doesn't do better. Don't believe it. I'll be looking for another text tweak.
I still think basically going from 4 seconds, to 3, was this HUGE helping of performance that will keep me happy no matter what happens. I don't have a deposit down, and had planned to wait for tested P85D numbers from the night Luda came out. Remember, "almost"? I'm starting to wonder if they'll "almost" be ready for a P90D 10.9, by the time 6 months are over?
I still think basically going from 4 seconds, to 3, was this HUGE helping of performance that will keep me happy no matter what happens. I don't have a deposit down, and had planned to wait for tested P85D numbers from the night Luda came out. Remember, "almost"? I'm starting to wonder if they'll "almost" be ready for a P90D 10.9, by the time 6 months are over?
I want a job in Teslas comms/marketing-department! Most easy job ever and no one cares if you get things right on the 345first attempts
You should send a thank-you email to Ricardo Reyes. He is Tesla's Director of Communications.
First the announcement from Elon: "[Ludicrous Mode] ...results in is a 10% improvement in the 0 to 60 mph time to 2.8 secs and a quarter mile time of 10.9 secs. Time to 155 mph is improved even more, resulting in a 20% reduction.This option will cost $10k for new buyers. In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor.". Then collect non-refundable deposit. Then add a disclaimer that it will not do what they originally told you - that's not a clarification, that is a change in specs. Bait and switch is a form of fraud in the US which I doubt Tesla would want to engage in - I suspect they will just issue a refund to those who request it, especially that it doesn't take a lawyers or money to refuse payment, simply calling the credit card company would start a fraud dispute.
Personally I don't need any faster 0-60. I placed the deposit down to get 30-80 power boost, which I originally expected to be a free sw update unleashing the advertised 691hp. At over $8,000 (after tax) only 0.2s 5-60 (car is not at 0 with at 1ft rollout) the upgrade is absolutely not worth it. Not sure whether this is a com issue, or did it turn out in testing that even with the bigger fuse, 85KWh battery simply cannot provide any more power. We already know pre-ludicrous the battery cannot source enough power for originally advertised 691hp (simple power calculation using max old fuse current and battery voltage will show you that). If ludicrous for P85D is only adding some 55hp (10% increase) in some very limited conditions, then at best it should be a free upgrade to all P85D's that were ordered when 691hp was advertised as a gesture of good faith (maybe ask for a liability release for the 691hp in exchange). No, I was not part of "the letter", but in the direction things are going I'm starting to feel partial to their message. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, let's see what happens by the time the upgrade will actually become available.
Originally I could not wait to upgrade, but I have since changed my mind. I have never seen the advertised 691 hp and 155mph. I have only seen 500hp and 133 mph but this was enough to beat every car at the 1/8 mile drags except one, Nissan GTR.
I hate to see Tesla fall to the tactics of all the other automakers, false advertising. Another thing that changed my mind is the dishonest $2500 labor cost. At $100 per hour that is a full 3 days of labor, if it took 8 hours i would be surprised. One reason for doing the upgrade is to support Tesla, but if they get greedy or engage in false advertising they will lose support.
I am now hoping that a larger battery option with the L will be available at a later date. Such as a 110L as I arrived home last night with the P85D reading -1 mile.
tstafford
Active Member
Regarding the labor costs ^^^^.
I was told the upgrade is actually fairly complicated to do and takes several techs over a two day period to accomplish. Just another rumor for the mill.
I was told the upgrade is actually fairly complicated to do and takes several techs over a two day period to accomplish. Just another rumor for the mill.
And I don't really believe that. If they can swap a battery in 30 seconds, or whatever it is, at the swap stations, then taking a battery out and changing out the contacts, shouldn't take more than half a day.
Brit4864
Member
You read my mind. A 110Kw battery with Ludicrous installed offered as a option in about 2 or 3 years time. Having gone to the R&D cost of designing and producing the L-mode assembly, it makes no sense for them not use it in future versions and of course, it is being used in the P90DL's now.
Until real world P85DL figures are known, I'd say wait for future upgrades. BTW, I drove a friend's P90DL today and there is an improvement in the 50mph+ acceleration. It feels more "punchy". That said, it didn't feel vastly different than my P85D.
I never drove a normal P85D, but driving an 85D and a P90D back to back I can tell you there's a huge different in power above 60. People have complained that the P85D isn't a good deal because the upper power output is so close to the 85D. This was not my impression with the P90D. It was more like which body parts do I need to sell to have this car....
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