Which Home Charger Supplier

[PaulMac]

Hi Graham

Not premature!!!!

I also ordered via techforenergy in mid Nov, and their service and correspondence has been excellent, however getting the actual government subsidy approved appears to take ages. They now have the box and sign off, and have offered two possible install dates before Christmas. I have had the car since the 1st Dec, so will welcome the 32A install!!!!

I guess you are local if you bought from Gatwick, I am in Kingswood so if you want to see the installed Rolec before you commit then your welcome to contact me and pop over for a look...

Paul

 

[grahamsimmonds]

Thank you Paul - I am actually live on the South Coast so not that local. Still waiting to hear from techforenergy but Rolec said I should hear within 3 - 4 working days so I will be patient. It sounds like I was right to get on with it from what you are saying. I am pretty persuaded by the fact that it supports the full 32 amps and I am not paying the extra £95!

I would be very interested to hear how you get on with your installation and use.

 

[roym]

I too am getting a 32a Rolec homecharger free of charge - I'm based in Harrogate in North Yorkshire and have been dealing with The Phoenix Works and their communication has been excellent. They were a little worried that I was too prepared as my car isn't due until April and they were not sure if this would be authorised but a couple of weeks later OLEV have come back and said this is fine (subject to all paperwork). They'll be installing early January so if anyone wants to call by to test you're more than welcome!

 

[Rluner]

They'll be installing early January so if anyone wants to call by to test you're more than welcome!

I collect my car next week, so I may well take you up on your offer in January!

 

[grahamsimmonds]

I heard from Rashida from from techforenergy.com today. Amongst the various requirements for satisfying the OLEV requirements which are fine, they have asked for a bunch of pictures showing my fusebox, feed, earthing and proposed location of the charger. I was told by Rolec that I would get a survey visit. However, the email from techforenergy.com implies that I can have a survey visit but it will delay the installation significantly so asks for photos instead. Apparently I need a spare Minature Circuit Breaker for the charger. I googled it but it is pretty safe to say that I could not tell you whether there is a spare MCB on my fusebox or not. I feel vulnerable because of my ignorance as any extra work that is required will be chargeable.

What did others do? Any advice from those who understand these things better than me would be appreciated.

 

[arg]

. Apparently I need a spare Minature Circuit Breaker for the charger. I googled it but it is pretty safe to say that I could not tell you whether there is a spare MCB on my fusebox or not.

(note: modern terminology is "Consumer Unit". Many people still say "fusebox" for old time's sake, which is fine - but you have one so old that it actually is a fusebox (has wire fuses in it) you may want to think about getting it updated).

MCB = "miniature circuit breaker" - the individual circuit breakers that protect each separate circuit coming out of the Consumer Unit. A typical Consumer Unit has a Main Switch, and then a row of MCBs next to it. Sometimes the Main Switch is actually an RCD (has a safety test button next to it rather than just being a switch), somtimes consumer units are split with a Main Switch controlling half of it and an RCD controlling the other half, sometimes there are two RCDs. Anyhow, the MCBs are the breakers controlling individual circuits - labelled such as "lights upstairs", "ring main front", "Cooker" etc.

The point here is that your charging equipment needs its own circuit and its own MCB in the panel. The easy situations (what they are looking for and shouldn't charge extra for) are:

- There is actually a spare MCB in the Consumer Unit that doesn't do anything. Relatively unlikely.
- The Consumer Unit has room for more MCBs than are currently fitted - with the spare space covered with a separate blanking plate or a 'knock out' (piece of the plastic face that's only loosely attached and can be removed to make space). This is hard to describe, but should be very obvious from a photo. Feel free to post the photo here before sending it in if you want additional opinions.
- The Consumer Unit is full, but you have a circuit which you are not using and could be re-used. This was the case for my installation - the previous owners of the house had installed a Hot Tub which I then removed, so the circuit leading to where the Hot Tub location could be disconnected and the space used for the new circuit for the car.

If none of these possibilities apply, there's various things that they (or your own electrician) can do:

- Replace the Consumer Unit with a bigger one. May or may not be easy depending how much space there is around it. Quite expensive, but may be worth the money if your consumer unit is old and wants updating to modern standards.

- Tap into the supply between the meter and the Consumer Unit to fit a second small Consumer Unit just for the charging. Straightforward and maybe cheap, but theoretically requires the supply fuse to be taken out and so involves the electricity company (electricians may have more or less legitimate ways to work around this). This is what chargepoint suppliers normally do if there's no room in the main Consumer Unit.

- Move some of your existing circuits out of the existing Consumer Unit to a secondary one fed from a single circuit in the main Consumer Unit. May not be feasible at all, but could be cheaper if it is feasible.

 

[grahamsimmonds]

Thanks Arg!

I do have a "consumer unit" with MCBs but doubt there is a spare one as it was replaced fairly recently. I will take some pics, post them and you can let me know what you think.

Cheers

Graham

 

[smac]

Graham,

Just because it's new doesn't mean it has no spare "ways", it's probably more likely a good sparky would install one with some additional capacity unless they are penny pinching or physical size is an issue. The difference between a 10 and a 12 way unit is £s. The cost of changing one for a bigger because you run out of ways is £00s

If you look at this picture, you will see it's a 13 way unit, but only 10 MCB's installed.
British General 13-Way Dual RCD High Integrity Consumer Unit + 10 MCBs | Domestic Consumer Units | Screwfix.com

If you look carefully the blanking plates Arj is describing are on the the left hand side. The installer will need to buy an MCB that matches your brand of consumer unit (they aren't universal) remove a blanking plate and install the new circuit on that new MCB. This is the easiest.


HTH

Si

 

[grahamsimmonds]

Thanks Si!

Here is a hi res pic of my consumer unit as promised. There seem to be two groups of MCBs, all of which appear to be used. However, there are some blanking plates beside each group where an additional MCB could be fitted? What do you think or Arg think?

The other worry I have is that I am buying the car through my company but the car does not arrive til June. Is it the same as with an individual private purchase? Will they still accept the order number and deposit receipt as proof even if it is a company?

Thank you as always!

Graham


Many thanks

 

[arg]

Here is a hi res pic of my consumer unit as promised. There seem to be two groups of MCBs, all of which appear to be used. However, there are some blanking plates beside each group where an additional MCB could be fitted? What do you think or Arg think?

Yes, loads of spare space! Should make for an easy install. They will need to supply the extra MCB (which I'm sure they do as a matter of course).

When sending photos to your installer, you will need another photo showing slightly lower and with the door shut so they can see your earthing arrangement and so decide whether you need a new earth spike, but that's no big deal (cost of the new earth spike is normally included in the 'free' offers).

The other worry I have is that I am buying the car through my company but the car does not arrive til June. Is it the same as with an individual private purchase? Will they still accept the order number and deposit receipt as proof even if it is a company?

I don't have experience with the new OLEV scheme rules. I don't think having it owned by the company is material, though they may ultimately want it registered at your address.

BTW, note that the registration is for 'registered keeper', not 'registered owner' - I got mine registered with the company name on the registration (thinking that was the right thing to do), but it's since caused me grief and I realise now I should just have registered it with me personally as the keeper.

 

[smac]

Agree with Arg, should be easy. You have 5 spare ways!

I wouldn't expect them to charge you for the MCB's they are really cheap items, here is your unit:
13 Way Starbreaker Hi Integrity Dual Split Consumer Unit 3 + 5 + 5

If you look carefully you actually have 3 groups of MCBs. One group is non-RCD protected and two groups of RCD protected circuits.

Personally I'd go for an RCBO if I had a board like yours. It's £20 more but it would isolate your charge point from nuisance tripping and you are lucky enough to have space to put one in after the main isolation switch.


Like Arj my install was done prior to the OLEV rule changes, but I'm sure your supplier will have experience of installing points before the car has been delivered

I think Arj and I have different experiences with who you register the car with. My car is registered to my company, and I've found it completely grief free, and in many ways easier as we already run 10+ other company cars so all the DVLA paperwork goes to the same place. The other big plus is I didn't have to do anything special with our fleet insurance to explain why the company wasn't registered keeper.

The other thing to bear in mind is if you do get a parking fine, the registered keeper has an impact on taxation rules:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim21686.htm
My interpretation of this guidance note is: if a car is registered to the company, then it can pay it not you personally without incurring BIK. If you are registered keeper you must pay it out of your net pay

 

[grahamsimmonds]

Hi both

Thanks for your help! Today I have heard back from Rashida at techforenergy.co.uk and she confirmed that there will be no extra charges involved for the supply and installation and I have an 8th Jan install date. I might have a chat with her about the extra RCBO as that sounds sensible.

As you can tell, this is the first car that I have bought through my company (although I suspect there may be more soon). I will consider the advice that you have both given me carefully, particularly around the registered keeper. I will be insuring my Sales Director on this car as well (I am very trusting) so insurance is going to be another area of investigation as well. Any advice again gratefully received.

Merry Xmas!

Graham

 

[PaulMac]

EVCP installation report - UK

OKAY EVCP installed...here is my report!!!

I have a reputation for saying what I think good and bad, so hopefully this review is valuable for the forum.

Tech for energy booked for 8am today 22nd December 2014.
Plan was to install a Rolec 32A EVCP, FREE of charge with a tethered cable and plug.

I went with them because the customer service was good at the initial point, I felt the charge point looked nice and tidy, and because unlike everyone else I could find the install was free, even for a 32A unit.

The engineer arrived at exactly 8am...good start.
He was courteous, polite, and presentable....just as important.

The instal went well, to be honest it was a simple enough install as the fuse unit is on the same wall in my garage as the area I wanted the EVCP installed, however he took the time to hold the unit up against the wall without me asking and making sure I was happy with the position and the route the cable would run.

HE then basically quietly got one with it. He used proper fixings in the cinder block walls, and clearly and calmly got on with it. They also installed a meter which reports back usage via a gsm connection, and proves to us tax payers that this install is in use, and gathers some usage stats. More importantly for me it records how much power I am using so I can claim it back as a business expense and HMRC could happily check it if required.

Once the install was completed, he tested it with a dedicated tester, and also the normal electricians testers, then he tidied up, swept up and then put the rubbish in his van to take away...simply astounding!!! He even took half a box of garden leaves that had blown in.

PROBLEM : once installed I plugged in and a little disappointment appeared as although the car could see it now had 32A...it ramped up to 10A but then stayed there. Rolec are now shut for Christmas, so it was left as a mystery as everything looked as though 32A should flow. Then I had a revelation. Remembering a comment on the forum I remembered that there is some link to the GPS location and the charge current. Indeed I had charged the car here at 10A before using the UMC and when I went back to the car, sure enough I could turn up the current on the charge screen and wow full 32A. So thats one to watch if you have this installed yourself, remember to check the charge current manually in the car if you have charged before.

Here are some photos of the install....

Paul

 

[mgboyes]

The fact that the meter here is separate is fascinating. It strongly suggests that Rolec might be able to do an OLEV-supported 3 phase install (with one of their 3 phase points, and a 3 phase meter) for not much more than the cost of a single phase install.

If a 32A single phase unit is free and a 3 phase one was only say £300 that would be a fantastic bargain.

 

[smac]

The fact that the meter here is separate is fascinating. It strongly suggests that Rolec might be able to do an OLEV-supported 3 phase install (with one of their 3 phase points, and a 3 phase meter) for not much more than the cost of a single phase install.

If a 32A single phase unit is free and a 3 phase one was only say £300 that would be a fantastic bargain.

I asked about 3 phase installed at home and it's the grant rules, not the hardware that's the problem

I have managed to get a 3 phase unit (a very nice Etrel one) installed at the office FOC using a local council "sustainable transport" grant though. That was a bargain

 

[mgboyes]

I asked about 3 phase installed at home and it's the grant rules, not the hardware that's the problem

I have managed to get a 3 phase unit (a very nice Etrel one) installed at the office FOC using a local council "sustainable transport" grant though. That was a bargain

That must be a change in the rules - I know at least one owner who had a 3 phase EVSE installed under the grant. It still cost them nearly £1000 in extra charges, but OLEV definitely part-paid for it.

 

[smac]

That must be a change in the rules - I know at least one owner who had a 3 phase EVSE installed under the grant. It still cost them nearly £1000 in extra charges, but OLEV definitely part-paid for it.

I only asked ChargeMaster (I didn't know better at the time)

Wow £1000 _extra_!! It must have been a long cable run, or some significant changes to his distribution board!

Depending on the exact nature of the installation, I'd expect a complete 3 phase install of a non-OLEV unit to be less. £600 for an EVSE like this one, £250 for a sparky for a day, still leaves £150 for cable and ancillaries!

EVSE 3 Phase 22kW Unit New Electric NL

 

[mgboyes]

I only asked ChargeMaster (I didn't know better at the time)

Wow £1000 _extra_!! It must have been a long cable run, or some significant changes to his distribution board!

Depending on the exact nature of the installation, I'd expect a complete 3 phase install of a non-OLEV unit to be less. £600 for an EVSE like this one, £250 for a sparky for a day, still leaves £150 for cable and ancillaries!

EVSE 3 Phase 22kW Unit New Electric NL

Yep, 3 phase EVSEs have really dropped in price in the last 6 months. The Rolec one is only £100 or so more than the single phase one they're installing for free.

 

[PaulMac]

after a month of use of my new car, I am not sure how many need cases there would be for a 3-phase charge. My original obsession with charging calmed most over Christmas where I pottered around locally as I would with my old ICE, and did not plug in over the whole 2 weeks...with 32A single phase charger I plugged in yesterday evening with 40 miles left (Sunday), and had a full charge of 306 miles this morning when I left for my 170mile trip to work (stopping at a supercharger for a bacon roll, loo break and some power!). If I can charge from empty over night, I would have to be doing 200 miles plus a day to consider 3-phase......unless I only had a 110V supply as they do in US!!!

 

[smac]

I agree with Paul, 3 phase home charging is probably over kill, and unless you pay to enable the dual chargers there is minimal difference in rate of charge.

I have just got a three phase install done at the office and it's lovely

Theoretically I could have a client (in a 22kW Tesla) visit for a 1/2 day meeting and get them fully recharged. I know it's an unlikely scenario but....

... I couldn't resist:

It's web connected, you can RFID protect it, set permissable use hours, log power usage, charging stats, configure it for load sharing (if you had two units and two EVs), and pretty much anything else you can think of.

They also do a 7kW version, that shares all the same technology, just don't expect to get one on the OLEV grant