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Vampire Losses: How About Disconnecting the 12V ?

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SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
14,871
21,501
New Mexico
For day to day car use I quietly mumble about the vampire losses and wait for a better day. But if my car is going to sit for a week or more I'd like a way to put the car into a deep sleep where losses are minimal to none.

Would disconnecting the 12v have that effect, and would it be safe ?
 
Totally agreed.
Left our car at an offsite parking location at Atlanta airport, and the battery just lost about 1% per day over 9 days.

Please quit yakking on about this myth of "vampire drain". Its a non-issue.

It's still a waste, and one that other EV makers don't have. How would you feel if your ICE care lost 1% of the gas in it's tank everyday?

As much as GM is annoying me lately, they knew how to avoid vampire drain: Unless the car is being driven, or charging, the HV contactors are open (disconnecting the HV battery). And, the 12V battery needs to sustain the car's electronics for a month without being topped up. Both my Volt and Spark EV operated that way and I could let them sit for weeks with no noticeable drop in HV battery charge. I'm not sure why Tesla can't figure it out.
 
Totally agreed.
Left our car at an offsite parking location at Atlanta airport, and the battery just lost about 1% per day over 9 days.

Please quit yakking on about this myth of "vampire drain". Its a non-issue.

Wut? That 1% drain a day is a huge issue for some people. It is clearly indicated in the owner's manual, so maybe those people should not have bought the car though, I guess?

I mean, I understand; you clearly do not care about efficiency. You like the car and that is great. I like my car too.

But what would you do if you were driving somewhere remote, at the limit of the range, with no easy access to charging, and wanted to leave the car for a week to go backpacking? It would be a huge problem. This will be an issue for me...

And the evidence suggests that when in sleep it uses just 5W from the 12V battery (which is poor but borderline acceptable, it's just 0.15% per day), and wakes up fine when you walk up to it, but when it's in idle it uses at least a couple hundred watts (from the HV battery). That's to run the cameras, the camera heater on the windshield, the ultrasonic sensors, recharge the 12V, and who knows what else (probably the computer). In idle the only additional thing it should really need to do is charge the 12V battery. That should not take that much power!

I have the same experience with the Spark EV. Mine has been sitting for two weeks and it's at the same 48 miles as it was when I left it.
 
I have the same experience with the Spark EV. Mine has been sitting for two weeks and it's at the same 48 miles as it was when I left it.
Not having had a Spark, does it do anything when not in use--other than charge? With Tesla you're getting something that is at listens for a connection all the time. maintains the 12V battery, maintains the traction battery temperature, checks for things such as preconditioning and cabin overheating if you have those turned on, etc. That all comes at an energy cost.
 
Not having had a Spark, does it do anything when not in use--other than charge? With Tesla you're getting something that is at listens for a connection all the time. maintains the 12V battery, maintains the traction battery temperature, checks for things such as preconditioning and cabin overheating if you have those turned on, etc. That all comes at an energy cost.

Yes, Onstar is always listening. It has an app, similar to Tesla's, that provides status of the car and allows preconditioning.
 
Not having had a Spark, does it do anything when not in use--other than charge? With Tesla you're getting something that is at listens for a connection all the time. maintains the 12V battery, maintains the traction battery temperature, checks for things such as preconditioning and cabin overheating if you have those turned on, etc. That all comes at an energy cost.

For the Tesla:
First: to reiterate, the 5W (which is acceptable, borderline) is enough to:
1) allow instant door opening.
2) listen for wake ups (though they can be slow)
3) draw down the 12V battery

Cabin overheat protection: having this on does not impact vampire drain if it does not engage. I’ve checked.

Preconditioning: this is not vampire drain.

Battery temp protection: the car does nothing with the HV battery to maintain the pack temperature over a wide range of “normal” temps. What it does outside of those temps is not vampire drain. In any case this is not the reason for vampire drain (not does Tesla claim it is).


Again, the majority of the issue is what happens in the few hours it spends in a non-sleep state.

Spark EV:

Allows remote connections.
Allows preconditioning/lock/unlock/etc.
Keeps track of vehicle system status.
Does battery thermal management if needed. (Never seen any energy used for this in my Spark under any scenario, but it does happen at extremes.)
 
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For day to day car use I quietly mumble about the vampire losses and wait for a better day. But if my car is going to sit for a week or more I'd like a way to put the car into a deep sleep where losses are minimal to none.

Would disconnecting the 12v have that effect, and would it be safe ?

If you do end up doing this, let us know the full procedure. It definitely seems like having a portable 12V (9V allegedly?) source for opening the frunk would be advisable. But I wonder about the restart and whether everything would just start working again flawlessly without any nagging or limping from Tesla.

Obviously it is not a problem to disconnect the 12V in general, as that is what happens when the 12V is dead. I don’t think any HV battery worries here as long as it’s not too hot - it’s not doing anything with the HV battery other than discharging it, anyway. It might cycle coolant pointlessly of course. It certainly does not expend any energy keeping it warm except when you want to use the HV battery. Exactly how hot it has to be before cooling kicks in I have no idea.

Might be my only option later this year, if I abandon the vehicle for a while.
 
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Totally agreed.
Left our car at an offsite parking location at Atlanta airport, and the battery just lost about 1% per day over 9 days.

Please quit yakking on about this myth of "vampire drain". Its a non-issue.
I will stop yakking when I get my vampire drain to be only 1% per day (it used to be that low for me 2 years ago)
My case is 3kwh/day (4%) and never less than 10 miles a day and I turned every connection option off (including mobile access)

And yes my Bolt sits next to my X and has not even lost 100Wh in 10 days. And yes the Bolt talks to my app fine (maybe not as quickly)
 
It's still a waste, and one that other EV makers don't have. How would you feel if your ICE care lost 1% of the gas in it's tank everyday?

As much as GM is annoying me lately, they knew how to avoid vampire drain: Unless the car is being driven, or charging, the HV contactors are open (disconnecting the HV battery). And, the 12V battery needs to sustain the car's electronics for a month without being topped up. Both my Volt and Spark EV operated that way and I could let them sit for weeks with no noticeable drop in HV battery charge. I'm not sure why Tesla can't figure it out.
You don't live in a hot climate... Bolt protects its battery and can have drain. I am not sure about the discontinued Volt or Spark models...
 
You don't live in a hot climate... Bolt protects its battery and can have drain. I am not sure about the discontinued Volt or Spark models...

This is certainly true; the Spark EV provides specifically as a category, battery thermal management, and provides a measurement showing how much energy has been used for this purpose. It’s extremely easy to determine whether you have used any energy for that purpose.

I live in San Diego in temperatures from 35 to 105 degrees and I have not once seen this thermal management consume any power. It has always been zero.

I am sure in Phoenix or very cold locations the experience is different.

But I do not regard this as vampire drain in either the Tesla or the GM products. It’s a necessary energy use which prolongs the battery life.
 
But what would you do if you were driving somewhere remote, at the limit of the range, with no easy access to charging, and wanted to leave the car for a week to go backpacking? It would be a huge problem. This will be an issue for me...
.

In regards to backpacking.

I have taken several trips this year in excess of 10 days into the backcountry while leaving the car parked. Most areas I travel to are not covered by cell service at parking location. Think Wilderness Areas not National Parks.

Furthest drive was 133 miles from SC. Stop for a pint at a destination charger for 3-4% or so. Then off into nowheresville. Car left for 13 days once with 4% loss. Crazy wild temp swings up in mountains during day and night.

I make sure everything that is a potential option to be on is off. Wifi, interior lights. Exterior lights Cabin overheat. Now sentry. I know it makes no difference, but I have had great results. Also on the way in and out. No heat or A/C. Very moderate speeds on the way in to conserve. Was getting passed left and right.

First time coming out of the woods. I was like ok what present is this battery going to give me. Hopefully not a sat phone call to the tow truck that would probably say I will see you tomorrow. That cold soaked battery coming down a dirt mountain road is always fun with no regen to speak of.

I guess one could say at current time it could be a head scratcher. You do have to do some calculations and room for a couple What ifs? I just feel good pulling into a trailhead with an EV as I look out to a pristine wilderness. Just trying to make it a little better than before I got there.

Jackson SC to Big Sandy Campground and back 266 miles. If I can make it back into the Wind River Range. Well I think it's doable. More than willing to help anyone map it out.


Edit: I do select power off, but I also don't seem to think it does anything. Car still seems on.